We need a lot more electricians • Hacker News Board

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#31

Post by epistasis » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes.

We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times.

And as we have smarter devices, and more time of use billing, load shifting will be easy.

That said, having lots more battery storage inside buildings may be a great way to help shift peaks, and be far cheaper than upgrading lots of connections everywhere.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#32

Post by sbradford26 » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18

signaturefish wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the n…

Services to the US are at 240V though they just utilize a center tap transformer to allow two different 120v legs. So that 200 amp service is 200 amps at 240V so approximately 48kW. Largely US homes have bigger feeds in because the US has significantly larger homes on average and the prevalence of AC and other higher power usage devices in US homes.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#33

Post by pyb » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#34

Post by danans » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18

signaturefish wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

I'd never heard of a 400 A service until just this discussion (it's common to have 100 A - 200 A), but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power: UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W Edit: I am wrong in my understanding of US power distribution. It's 200 A per leg, which the US has two of. But it seems like the UK may or may not have 380 3 Phase, so the n…

> but it's important to keep in mind the voltage differences and that effect on total power:

> UK: 100 A x 230 V = 23,00 W

> US: 200 A x 120 V = 24,00 W

That's incorrect. The service drop in the US is 220V. It gets stepped down at the main load center to 120V for most of the regular circuits. So it's more like 48000W service in US houses.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#35

Post by nsporillo » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

When I got the exterior siding of my home replaced, we also wanted to have our electrical meter box replaced because it was falling off the side of the house.

The work we originally thought was needed was just a new meter box. Turned out we needed a new wire run from the meter all the way to our water line, a new pipe for the underground wiring, two additional grounding wires.

The utility said it wasnt their problem as the meter itself is their property but the housing, the way it attaches to the house, and the connection to the transformer was our responsibility to pay for.

Nearly $2000 to get a simple meter box replacement. Edit: Because this work was to be done in tandem with the siding replacement to avoid expensive rework, we didn't have much of an option in shopping around as most electricians did not want to deal with coordination with the utility around disconnect and inspection.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#36

Post by sbradford26 » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #27

signaturefish wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always forget the size difference between US and UK homes (I assume toomuchtodo is speaking from a US perspective). Here, in my three-bedroom UK house I'm on a 60A service fuse and considering updating to 100A in the future (amusingly, as part of a solar PV / electric vehicle charger install). I've never heard of a UK house having a larger than 100A service (although I imagine they exist here and there - it's certa…

Isn't this because the UK standard is 230 volts? The US is only 120, so you need almost twice the amps for the same power.

Services to the US are at 240V they just utilize a center tap transformer to allow two different 120v legs. So that 200 amp service is 200 amps at 240V so approximately 48kW.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#37

Post by newZWhoDis » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#38

Post by Kon-Peki » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

yboris wrote: post #17

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for…

Your willingness to repeatedly follow a process without deviation puts you into a much smaller group than the general population.

Yes, the average person can do it, but many won't. And it will be innocent bystanders or firefighters or whatever that pay the ultimate price, not the sloppy guy or gal that saved a few dollars by doing it themselves.

I wish that our building codes and permitting system had provisions for "competent amateurs", but how on earth would you do that?

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#39

Post by vehemenz » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

I think the article does a disservice to its thesis by focusing on California. Half the country lives in places where subzero temperatures are an issue. Not to mention, the rest of the country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable, let alone the disposable wealth to upgrade their homes. Electric cars are still a long way from viability in most places, though it may not seem that way in California.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#40

Post by actionfromafar » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

pyb wrote: post #33

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.

I don't think it's unreasonable to update to code when other changes are made.