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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

insideevs.com

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#111

Post by cgeier »

Karellen wrote: post #109
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how does this compare with Tesla? Mercedes appears to be indemnifying drivers when its tech is engaged. That's frankly the bigger first for me than SAE Level 3.

But the level they're selling still requires that the driver be able to resume control when notified. So the "the car notified the driver to take over, disengaged, and shortly following that the driver crashed the car" narrative is still possible, even when the "shortly following that" might actually be "0.1s later". Sorry, our tech wasn't engaged at the time, you're actually the one at fault here. Yes, the standard…

At least for the German version, they notify the driver with 10s before they need to take over.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#112

Post by Karellen »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #90
mrtksn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a branding issue. It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. You can see significantly more negativity for non-SV tech, especially when they do something outside of the narrative. If it’s an electric car, should be batteries and not fuel cells for example. This is also one of the reasons why if a company wants to go big needs to move to SV. It looks much better wh…

> It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. I feel quite vindicated by this, because I've always been (perhaps irrationally) rather suspicious of Tesla. Software company suddenly decides to make 'luxury cars'? Cool story bro. My opinion is that the German triad (BMW, VW (and subsidiaries, including Porsche), Merc-Benz) may have lost some ground to Tesla when it comes to EVs a…

When was Tesla ever a software company?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#113

Post by czzr »

rsync wrote: post #92
jupp0r wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the definition of level 3 that you don't have to do this? Is your point that the claim of level 3 readiness is false or that all autonomous driving is somehow inferior to non autonomous driving?

We can't handle mode switching in this manner. If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph you need to be fully engaged in that task. We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. So my contention is that level-X where X is less than "I can fall asleep in the back seat" is a deadly valley between unassisted driving and passive pas…

You’re correct, but this is the point of this announcement - 10secs to reorient yourself is a lot of time - it’s vastly different to “oops, you’re about to crash in 0.5s, sorry, you’re on your own”

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#114

Post by Someone »

oarsinsync wrote: post #80
xracy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to press the breaks or gas when you are following someone without changing lanes.

My 2016 adaptive cruise control already does this. There must be more to it than this. ACC will follow the car in front of me to a complete stop if necessary already. And then resume too.

Reading https://insideevs.com/news/584686/mercedes-level-3-autonomou...:

“Like related Level 2 driver-assistance systems, Mercedes' Level 3 technology handles driving speed, following distance, and steering. In the meantime, it keeps tabs on a preset route and traffic signs and signals. The system can also brake and/or maneuver to avoid potential situations.”

So, it reacts to traffic signs, and can change lanes to pass slower cars.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#115

Post by _the_inflator »

stillworks wrote: post #110

The article doesn’t mention the cutoff speed for L3 though. I think in Germany it is limited to 60km/h or 40mi/h. Also, only certified in Nevada currently (but California to follow soon). And seems like available only in S class or EQS class. Basically, for now benefits chauffeurs of expensive limo companies ferrying customers along the Las Vegas strip (admittedly an over simplification for the purpose of humour)

This has changed. Starting 2023 130km/h.

Source: https://www.heise.de/news/Hochautomatisiertes-Fahren-bis-130...

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#116

Post by winrid »

paxys wrote: post #91
kogus wrote: post #9

When I see articles like this, I have this bet between Jeff Atwood and John Carmack in the back of my mind: https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-2030-self-driving-car-bet/

I have been on Jeff's side of this bet since they announced it. Level 5 is simply too high of a bar to reach in the next few years, and in fact we are going about it the wrong way. We need smart roads more than smart cars. (Note that there's an escape hatch here, which is that the AI falls back to some human in a call center for guidance to get out of sticky situations. In my opinion that still doesn't qualify as lev…

> We need smart roads more than smart cars.

Ah yes, trains. :)

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#117

Post by azinman2 »

slavik81 wrote: post #104
rsync wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't handle mode switching in this manner. If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph you need to be fully engaged in that task. We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. So my contention is that level-X where X is less than "I can fall asleep in the back seat" is a deadly valley between unassisted driving and passive pas…

> If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph The Mercedes system has a top speed of 40 mph. > We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. That's why there is a 10 second handover. If the human fails to take control of the vehicle during the handover, the vehicle will slow to a stop.

Slowing to a stop isn’t enough: https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/16128488720611287...

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#118

Post by jeff_carr »

Karellen wrote: post #112
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. I feel quite vindicated by this, because I've always been (perhaps irrationally) rather suspicious of Tesla. Software company suddenly decides to make 'luxury cars'? Cool story bro. My opinion is that the German triad (BMW, VW (and subsidiaries, including Porsche), Merc-Benz) may have lost some ground to Tesla when it comes to EVs a…

When was Tesla ever a software company?

Exactly. More like they are selling vaporware. I paid $7500 for the self driving mode _a full year ago_ and it I definitely don't expect it to ever work now. They clearly sold customers something they didn't have.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#120

Post by michaelteter »

winrid wrote: post #116
paxys wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been on Jeff's side of this bet since they announced it. Level 5 is simply too high of a bar to reach in the next few years, and in fact we are going about it the wrong way. We need smart roads more than smart cars. (Note that there's an escape hatch here, which is that the AI falls back to some human in a call center for guidance to get out of sticky situations. In my opinion that still doesn't qualify as lev…

> We need smart roads more than smart cars. Ah yes, trains. :)

There's such an (exciting!) opportunity for us to create automated people mover systems that connect small and large systems to get people from very close to A to very close to B.

The design and engineering activities involved in solving this would be very enjoyable work, and the human benefits when (eventually) operational would be huge.

Every solution would need to be custom for its city/region, but one of the common ideas is concentric circles of trains, spaced at appropriate(ly large) distances, with trains running between in perpendicular direction. Basically wheels and spokes.

The wheel trains could stay in motion always, only slowing at connection points where the perpendicular trains would temporarily turn and run in parallel. Both trains would slow, cars would connect, passengers would come and go, and then trains would separate. Perpendicular train curves back in for its perpendicular direction of travel, and "wheel" train picks up speed and heads for the next spoke connection. Obviously any problem causes the joined trains to slow, even to a stop if necessary (to prevent human harm).

There are so many different possibilities here, but ultimately I think it should be possible for a human to walk 5-10 minutes to some station, get on some people mover, and eventually get out of another people mover within 5-10min walking distance of their ultimate destination... all without ever setting foot outside of a train aside from start/end points.

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