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Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

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Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#101

Post by oblio »

jmole wrote: post #15
glitchc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't argue that Tesla's smaller than Mercedes when Tesla's market cap is so much larger. In 2021, at it's peak Tesla's market cap crossed $1.2 Trillion. Daimler at it's peak this year only reached $81 Billion (although climbing). Why couldn't Tesla just buy out Daimler? Even now Tesla sitting at a valuation of $372 Billion. It could happen tomorrow. Tell me Elon's the savvy businessman you claim him to be. If Gates…

Buying a major car company is buying a whole heap of liabilities and depreciating assets. The major value drivers (contributors to market cap) are brand, patent portfolio, and future revenues from existing capex. Tesla doesn't want to support the supply chain of new and used parts for a legacy car company, they can barely keep up with their own (and they only make 4 models!).

> legacy car company

Let's drop the BS, please.

Mercedes is a car company. They are not legacy anything. They're the inventor of the car and a myriad other innovations.

They're making a ton of EVs and will sell a ton more next year and the year after that.

They have AR navigation and now are close to L3 self driving.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#102

Post by seadan83 »

glitchc wrote: post #10
mmsimanga wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am paraphrasing a quote I have heard before, "Pioneers get the bullets and settlers get the land." Might not be actual bullets but pioneers today have to deal with legislators, put up charging stations, develop most components from scratch and so on. These are the modern day bullets. If they don't get bought by a larger company the larger company launches a competing product with the benefit of the experiences of t…

Can't argue that Tesla's smaller than Mercedes when Tesla's market cap is so much larger. In 2021, at it's peak Tesla's market cap crossed $1.2 Trillion. Daimler at it's peak this year only reached $81 Billion (although climbing). Why couldn't Tesla just buy out Daimler? Even now Tesla sitting at a valuation of $372 Billion. It could happen tomorrow. Tell me Elon's the savvy businessman you claim him to be. If Gates…

Market cap does not equate to cash on hand. Let's say I give you a banana for $1. You bring that banana to a marathon where someone will pay you $5 for it. That does not mean I now have $5.

Tesla could dilute their stock and sell more, but that is quite the dilution. Further, the sell price might not be just the market cap value, particularly for a profitable company. Though, exactly those kind of take overs do happen (and with tesla's numbers, not too hard to imagine)

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#103

Post by Geee »

As I've said previously, this is just a marketing trick. It's not a technology breakthrough. It's a basic traffic jam assistant, which can be labeled as 'level 3', if Mercedes assumes liability. The conditions are limited to very low risk situations (low speed, straight highway, clear weather), which makes the expected cost of liability low.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#104

Post by slavik81 »

rsync wrote: post #92
jupp0r wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the definition of level 3 that you don't have to do this? Is your point that the claim of level 3 readiness is false or that all autonomous driving is somehow inferior to non autonomous driving?

We can't handle mode switching in this manner. If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph you need to be fully engaged in that task. We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second. So my contention is that level-X where X is less than "I can fall asleep in the back seat" is a deadly valley between unassisted driving and passive pas…

> If you are responsible for two tons of metal flying down the road at 70 mph

The Mercedes system has a top speed of 40 mph.

> We can handle being passengers and we can handle being drivers but we can't switch in a split second.

That's why there is a 10 second handover. If the human fails to take control of the vehicle during the handover, the vehicle will slow to a stop.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#105

Post by dbuder »

rsync wrote: post #87

Please, please drive your car. More than zero hands should be on the wheel and your eyes should be on the road. If you can't be bothered to do this, perhaps find another mode of transport.

People are so blase about these prototypes roaming free - do people really think the trolley problem is directly applicable to these technologies or is just greed like everything else?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#106

Post by elaus »

Geee wrote: post #103

As I've said previously, this is just a marketing trick. It's not a technology breakthrough. It's a basic traffic jam assistant, which can be labeled as 'level 3', if Mercedes assumes liability. The conditions are limited to very low risk situations (low speed, straight highway, clear weather), which makes the expected cost of liability low.

Yet no other automaker wanted to assume liability so far. If it's only a good "marketing trick" I'd think others would have taken that opportunity?

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#107

Post by sgjohnson »

TekMol wrote: post #49
sgjohnson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reason, a large part of HN users seem to hate every fundamentally new technology. Hate and healthy skepticism are two completely different things.

When I came here 10 minutes ago, this was the top comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34335123 Calling the article "complete horseshit". That sounds hateful to me.

> Mercedes’ Level 3 conditionally automated driving assistant can, on suitable highway sections and where traffic density is high, offer to take over the driving, leaving the driver free to do something else, like watch a movie or participate in a meeting.

Objectively speaking, the article IS complete horseshit, if it resorts to suggesting "watching a movie" or "participating in a meeting".

Which has got nothing to do with the technology itself, though.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#108

Post by seadan83 »

lkrubner wrote: post #99
lkrubner wrote: post #2

It used to be common to point out that 1/3rd of all of the self-made multimillionaires in the USA eventually go bankrupt. I don't know what the current statistic is, but 20 years ago I studied the issue in some detail, and the pattern was: 1. entrepreneur sees an opportunity that no one else sees 2. entrepreneur takes some big risks to take advantage of the opportunity 3. entrepreneur becomes wealthy because they too…

Why did my comment get downvoted? I'm sharing something that I learned back when I was doing serious research about entrepreneurship, and I'm pointing out that it applies to Elon Musk, an observation which should be relevant to the conversation.

I suspect because you did not relate your comment back to the article, it seems off topic to an article about Mercedes getting level3 self driving approved for nevada highways.

It is somewhat predictable that eventually responses would in particular start to focus on the elephant in the room.. fundamentally a parent comment should be about the article

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#109

Post by Karellen »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
vadym909 wrote: post #39

So how does this compare with Tesla? Is what I’d want to know. These levels maybe ok for engineers . Consumers like me watch YouTube videos to tell how good a car is at self driving

> how does this compare with Tesla? Mercedes appears to be indemnifying drivers when its tech is engaged. That's frankly the bigger first for me than SAE Level 3.

But the level they're selling still requires that the driver be able to resume control when notified. So the "the car notified the driver to take over, disengaged, and shortly following that the driver crashed the car" narrative is still possible, even when the "shortly following that" might actually be "0.1s later". Sorry, our tech wasn't engaged at the time, you're actually the one at fault here.

Yes, the standard requires that the driver be given "a few seconds" to resume before the system disengages, but things can change dramatically in a few seconds at highway speeds.

Re: Mercedes is the first automaker to offer Level 3 self-driving in the US

#110

Post by stillworks »

The article doesn’t mention the cutoff speed for L3 though. I think in Germany it is limited to 60km/h or 40mi/h.

Also, only certified in Nevada currently (but California to follow soon). And seems like available only in S class or EQS class.

Basically, for now benefits chauffeurs of expensive limo companies ferrying customers along the Las Vegas strip (admittedly an over simplification for the purpose of humour)

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