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A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

nytimes.com

181–190 of 294 posts

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bill in Florida was perfectly reasonable. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age- appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students according to state standards. 3rd grade classrooms are not places of intellectual freedom. They are places of indoctrination. A third grader…

Why can't the banning depictions of mohammad also be 'perfectly reasonable' because it university classrooms are not places of intellectual freedom, they are places of indoctrination. I can't think of any good reason for a teacher to want to violate this policy unless they want to push their own agenda onto the students. See how generic your defense is? It can be used for anything you disagree with. 'I need a new but…

    > Critical race theory is being muzzled at the university level by the government in florida. Are you angry about that overreach by state?
Critical race theory needs to be treated the same as other pro-discrimination ideologies. Either they're all ok or none are ok. Picking and choosing one type of racial discrimination to support is in fact racist.

After all, Ibram X. Kendi who is generally regarded as the foremost proponent of Critical Race Theory argued in his book How to Be an Antiracist that, “The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.” This is a fundamental position of Critical Race teachings.

Many would argue it's reasonable for parents to not want this sort of "good racial discrimination" being taught to their kids.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#182
post #3

Isn't it prohibited to depict any of god's creations in some/many/all Islamic sects? Thus all the interesting geometric patterns. Does that mean that virtually all Western art is islamaphobic? At what point does the demand that Western art doesn't do something that offend Islam itself become westernphobic.

Historically speaking, prohibiting depictions of Muhammad are a recent concept in Sunni Islam, especially the Saudi driven Wahhabism which is extremely conservative. Over history art as always been a huge part of Islamic life. This painting has been revered for centuries. The only reason this time it caused the school to go berserk is a single student complained, leading to overreaction in fear. Details: https://www.…

Are you saying Shia muslims don't feel the same?

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#183
post #64
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

To clarify, are you comparing Muslims who see depictions of Muhammad as sacrilegious to rabid dogs?

What else do you call a group of people willing to behead innocent teachers and murder of 12 people at Charlie Hebdo?

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#184
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still fits my idea of "few". And also doesn't Christianity give some good excuses to question or review these? Especially, considering that New Testament builds up on top of the Old Testament. I'm asking about the stuff around the quotes you've shown (otherwise we could fall for confirmation bias). Please understand me correctly. I'm not saying Christianity doesn't have cruel or bad things. I'm saying it doesn't…

"I'm saying it doesn't give one concrete, final, unchangeable set of rules." Like I said, it is complicated and up for debate. I have heard many conflicting viewpoints about it. Some take the whole bible literal, including the literal laws of the old testament - and they are not just a few, but many, many explicit laws about everything. More are mainly literal about the 10 commandments. And for some the only law is J…

Ok, maybe I was wrong, I don't know. I'd really like someone who knows about both to comment on what I wrote.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern progressivism does distinguish instances of “punching down”, yes. That’s no secret and is not intended to be. That’s not the point, though. Turning this into a “what about the white men!” whinge is blatantly misrepresenting this scenario as the result of “modern progressivism” when it’s actually something else. I believe that you’re not going to find many proponents of the sort of progressivism that the “white…

Wouldn't offending muslims be punching down then?

[flagged]

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#186

If Muslims are not OK with their religion and its figures being talked about in ways that are not within the rules of their religion, they shouldn't bring it up, and we should act as if it doesn't exist. You think your prophet was righteous? I don't care, I can't talk about him anyway, so it won't be part of my world of ideas. This has been my position on this topic since I got scolded by a Muslim for not referring t…

If LGBTQ are not OK with their gender and the movement's figureheads being talked about in ways that are not within the rules of their safe spaces, they shouldn't be shoving it down everyone's throats constantly, and we should act as if they don't exist. You think being LGBTQ is important? I don't care, I can't talk about them anyway, so it won't be part of my world of ideas. This has been my position on this topic s…

There's a difference though: You were talking about them, and not some public figure you are supposed to be following. When you are talking about me to my face, I'd really like you to use the proper form of address, otherwise you are insisting on being disrespectful.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#187
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even an ideology if you look at it that way but it is a state religion by design, that has various implementations depending on who's to benefit. It prescribes universal obligations which they have in common. Some other dogmas are subject to interpretation. So the question needs to be cast in another light, sure. It's a hard problem that isn't solved by calling on an ideology.

This comment makes little sense, does not negate the fact Islam is an ideology, and does nothing to contribute to this discussion.

Something that everyone can practice has to have a few simple rules that everyone can follow. That doesn't make it an ideology. It is a complex set of intervowen systems that are carried in no small part at the state level, communicated by language which is in fact a very complex system. That's an ideology insofar as the word may be related to idioma, as it were.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#188
post #180
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero tolerance for people who push their religious views on others and also use their religion to justify violence. Those who push their religious views on others and also use their religion to justify violence are extremely minority, majority of muslims do not do those things. And "bad muslims" always in those media or news because who would read articles about "nice muslim". So you should know what I mean.…

This is insanity. This is like saying insulting Republicans or Democrats should be punishable. There's nothing particularly special about religion that should give it protection from criticism or "disrespect" or being insulted (also, who decides what is an insult? the religious fruitcakes? naw dawg, fucking no). Anything else is such authoritarian insanity that it feels like you're arguing in bad faith, and it just g…

> There's nothing particularly special about religion that should give it protection from criticism or "disrespect" or being insulted (also, who decides what is an insult? the religious fruitcakes? naw dawg, fucking no)

Sure enough we do not need law about this. But should we actively offending others because we do not agree to them when we can go by beeing nice each other. Even if we do not share what is critism what is insult, I apologize if you feel offended.

> If you want to protect "good Muslims", you need to accept liberal values that include being able to "insult" a religion without fear of violent attack

Even if there is no violence, anyone should not insult others. And anyone who do violence or murder should be punished by law.

≥ You think there's some conceivable situation where it's justified to react to "being insulted" with a beheading?

No, I think there's no conceivable situation where it's justified to react to "being insulted" with a beheading.

> You can fuck right off with the rest of the extremists.

When I ask anyone to be nice to each other is extremist, well sorry.

Of course violence and terrorist is not right regardless of any reason.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#189
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the banning depictions of mohammad also be 'perfectly reasonable' because it university classrooms are not places of intellectual freedom, they are places of indoctrination. I can't think of any good reason for a teacher to want to violate this policy unless they want to push their own agenda onto the students. See how generic your defense is? It can be used for anything you disagree with. 'I need a new but…

> Critical race theory is being muzzled at the university level by the government in florida. Are you angry about that overreach by state? Critical race theory needs to be treated the same as other pro-discrimination ideologies. Either they're all ok or none are ok. Picking and choosing one type of racial discrimination to support is in fact racist. After all, Ibram X. Kendi who is generally regarded as the foremost…

Well then I don't get it. Putting up depictions of Mohammad can easily be viewed as inflammatory discrimination against Muslims, but that's ok?

Again, I don't think this teacher should have been fired. But the arguments against it in these comments seem hypocritical when support is given to other types of censorship only because they happen to disagree with what was being suppressed.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#190
Not long ago in the UK: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14462046/school-teacher-prophe....

Separately but on the same theme, there was an outrage against sex education in schools, because Muslims were offended, saying it was against their way of life. The irony was that the protest was lead by a dude who didn't even have children.

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