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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#81

Post by tpmx »

Ancalagon wrote: post #79
tpmx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In e.g. Scandinavia: The salary difference between say a software dev and a trade worker is pretty small (perhaps 30% less after taxes). The body breaking down aspect is still an issue. Younger people in these fields seem a lot more aware though - they're practically health freaks compared to your stereotypical 50-ish somewhat round trade worker with back pain issues. I guess we'll have to wait and see how that gener…

30% is the difference between $100k and $70k. That's a lot of money...

Again, it's 30%. It's a very small difference compared to e.g. the US norm. I actually think it's too small, but perhaps that's just me.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#82

Post by maherbeg »

garciansmith wrote: post #42
seydor wrote: post #18

A lot of this is due to the ancient nature of construction. Allow experimentation with new materials. Allow robots, prefabs etc. I m sure genz would love to program your 3d home printer or assemble your ikea home. They are not lazy, but forward thinking. Who wants to become a plumber when that job may be automated in 10 years

Plumbing strikes me as one of the very last manual jobs that will be automated, if ever. Every plumbing issue, even the most basic, is different due to the fittings and hardware being used. For example, I've been putting off hiring a plumber to replace the old drum trap behind my bathtub with a p-trap. I can't even fathom how a robot would go about doing such a thing when a plumber needs to sit there and think about…

I think there's the additional question of "how often should we just replace a building"? I've unfortunately made the realization after remodeling our 60 year old house that we should have just torn the house down.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#83

Post by dieselgate »

seydor wrote: post #80
dieselgate wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's weird right, how can we make homes and rent cheaper without more supply of homes?

i think that , if land and materials were cheap, genz or genX or any gen would learn to build their own homes. We ve actually been doing that for thousands of years

yeah it's not that technically difficult to build a home, all things considered. there are a lot of other things involved for sure

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#84

Post by dragonwriter »

> America needs carpenters and plumbers. Try telling that to Gen Z

Look, as long as we have a market economy, here's how you tell it to Gen Z: raise the wages for carpenters and plumbers (and if necessary shift some of that forward into subsidies and incentives for people to train as carpenters and plumbers) until you get as many as you say you “need”.

If America isn’t willing to pay enough to get X carpenters and Y plumbers, it doesn’t “need” them.

Most “we need more blue collar labor” arguments trace back to elites who want to retain more profit by paying less per unit blue collar labor.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#85

Post by oceanplexian »

UncleMeat wrote: post #43
nostrademons wrote: post #24

Tradespeople will be the new software engineers in the late 2020s through 2030s. Enough that I'm considering leaving my cushy FAANG engineering manager job to become an electrician. On top of the huge supply shortage, consider that the majority of the U.S. housing stock was built during the Baby Boom suburbanization from 1950-1970, and that the average lifespan of a house's internal systems (plumbing, electrical) is…

Tradespeople will definitely not be making 300k+ off a few years of experience five years from now.

I think this is actually one of those predictions that might not turn out the way you think. Economies are all about supply and demand, not how long or complicated the job title is.

The government is increasingly ignoring the problem, the higher-education-industrial-complex is grabbing workers that would otherwise go into the trades, mass-importation of unskilled labor is slowing down as it becomes more of a political minefield (In the EU and the US).

The confluence of all those factors will squeeze a limited labor pool, and prices will continue to increase. I think it's not unlikely that in 5-10 years we enter a crisis where critical infrastructure starts failing and the government has to start up a "Learn to Weld" program instead of "Learn to Code" program because things have gone so far out of balance.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#86

Post by bruceb »

onion2k wrote: post #52
bruceb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay more yet also increase the supply of labor which drives down wages. Seems not the answer.

Sometimes Econ101 supply and demand theory isn't nuanced enough. Wages can go up at the same time as the supply increases if the amount of money in the system also increases. How do you think software engineer wages rocketed up over the past 20 years?

Apples and oranges. One assumes there is a relatively fixed supply of plumbing problems. Software in the last 30+ years has created new industries which require more software people.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#87

Post by mfer »

dragonwriter wrote: post #84

> America needs carpenters and plumbers. Try telling that to Gen Z Look, as long as we have a market economy, here's how you tell it to Gen Z: raise the wages for carpenters and plumbers (and if necessary shift some of that forward into subsidies and incentives for people to train as carpenters and plumbers) until you get as many as you say you “need”. If America isn’t willing to pay enough to get X carpenters and Y…

There is a psychology problem with skilled trades and younger generates in the US.

I've known Gen Z folks who thinks it's better to work at a sandwich shop or small restaurant than skilled trades. They were raised up (through the schooling environment) to look down on trades. Even if it pays them significantly more with better benefits.

Many places in the US school system they only prepare people for college. Schools do this in subtle ways like providing AP courses while cutting hands on shop classes.

When it comes to subsidies... there are some trades areas where you can be trained for free. The people are needed so the training has already be made really easy. Sometimes it's on the job training and you're paid well while you learn.

This is very much a cultural view of skilled trades.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#88

Post by gedy »

seydor wrote: post #80
dieselgate wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's weird right, how can we make homes and rent cheaper without more supply of homes?

i think that , if land and materials were cheap, genz or genX or any gen would learn to build their own homes. We ve actually been doing that for thousands of years

Agreed, the amount of free info available on building a safe, efficient home is great, as well as easy access to modern materials.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#89

Post by mfer »

Avshalom wrote: post #36

A lot of these threads devolve into "have you tried paying more" but I'd also like to highlight "have you actually tried telling Gen Z that". I'm 35, from basically as early as I can remember until sophmore year of college I was told constantly by every adult (and I mean every adult not just the ones that had degrees) in my life to go to college, get a degree, any degree. So yeah I went to college. It was aggressivel…

Many adults were told college was the only way to go. Those who went through college and those who didn't. Doesn't matter the debt. It's always better.

Except it's not. First, society is going to have too few skilled trades folks in the coming years due to people retiring and not being replaced. Second, a lot of college degrees can't get someone a good job. I remember someone telling me they had a business degree and couldn't get a job managing a store at the mall.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#90

Post by sojournerc »

aliqot wrote: post #17

An uncomfortable truth is that you can have open borders or high unskilled labor wages, but seldom both.

1) Carpenters and Plumbers (electricians, mechanics, etc) are _not_ unskilled. There's a reason these trades have apprenticeships - there's _a lot_ to know and learn before you're capable on your own.

2) A path for immigrants to legally work in those fields would likely push down wages, but it would also reduce the cost of those services! Housing could become cheaper, so could the ongoing cost of owning a home. That could potentially reach a nice equilibrium.

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