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Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

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Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#401

Post by bombolo »

Olreich wrote: post #204
anonreeeeplor wrote: post #148

I have interviewed with Amazon several times. Every time I don’t make it through because I realized the people in many of the roles were (a) not the best people (b) I seemed to know way more than many of them about their domain (c) they kept trying to offer me horizontal transfer (d) they wanted to pay me less than I know I am worth. My impression is Amazon is a factory tuned to hire and churn a sort of middle of the…

There are brilliant devs at Amazon. There are poor devs at Amazon. The quality of the dev has very little bearing on promotion and hiring from what I can tell. Story telling and document writing appear to be the only things that are graded on a scale, everything else is pass/fail.

I worked with a very mediocre former amaxon developer who felt like he was god's gift because he had worked there. Avoid if possible.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#402

Post by roncesvalles »

m00x wrote: post #35
nfRfqX5n wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can make L5/6 to get that salary then they're probably pretty good actually

You can make it to L5/6 without being a good engineer. I interviewed several Uber/Amazon engineers and they couldn't solve a simple problem (very easy problem that most bootcamp grads could do). A lot of them get there by being interviewed by other bad engineers, and just float when the market is strong, or use politics to get in a good position. A guy at my company just merges library upgrade PRs blindly. That's all…

I agree to an extent. When Amazon goes on a hiring spree, they really do open up the floodgates. I suppose they rely on their infamous PIP-and-fire process to weed out those who shouldn't have come through. "Hire first, evaluate later."

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#403

Post by phpisthebest »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #280
phpisthebest wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They got sucked into the "new normal" that never was, and was never going to be. We are seeing a massive return to the old normal, which means people are going back to offices (not WFH) people are going back to shopping in person not online, people are going back to eating in restaurants not using Grub Hub or ordering online. etc etc etc

I think you are wrong. Not completely, but I think you missed the massive change in attitudes that took place the past few years. WFH is likely going to stay in some shape or form since it is clear it can work ( and heavens know emplopyers full remote positions have their pick of qualified candidates ) and likely some RTO will follow ( with another round of - likely muted due to recession - resignations ), but I woul…

WFH and ft remote was always a thing. It was not invented for COVID.

So of course some WFH positions will still exist but based on my alerts for different roles the number of full time WFH jobs have dropped off the cliff back down to what I would consider precovid levels

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#404

Post by makeitdouble »

rgavuliak wrote: post #397
makeitdouble wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe makes it _costly_ to let an employee go. You can get rid of 20 people for next monday if you want to, you’ll just pay the due amount as defined in the contract and the law. It’s also not some astronomical amount, worst case scenario I think it’s around 6 months of pay, which isn’t that far from what you’d pay for a non compete for instance. PS: also unemployment is a complicated figure, it’s hard to tell how m…

Lot of devs in Europe do contract work though. It's an employee disguised as a contractor so mostly as grey area, but it's becoming more common.

Yes. Companies having that choice is also interesting in that they get to decide if it's worth to have people come and go, as a replaceable resource.

For some company it totally works and they plan their staffing in 6 months spans (seen a small web agency basically having an "on" and "off" season, with half of the staff during the dead part), removing or adding people as they see fit. For others it's more difficult and they're pretty happy to have staff that can't just disappear within a month if they decide to go tour the Silk Road on a bike.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#405

Post by dkrich »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #290
dkrich wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s unusual about this cycle though is that it’s the fear of a recession due to fed policy that is causing companies to cut back. In past cycles fed policy caused a recession nobody predicted and companies suddenly found their earnings in the toilet and made enormous cuts in head count, R&D spending, etc. Something about this cycle and these cuts feels I dunno, manufacturered or something. Like are 7k high paying…

The Fed is trying to trigger a recession, although they'll never come out and say it, because they want to increase the unemployment rate. Increased unemployment will put a stop to both price and wage inflation. At this point the Fed is trying to prevent a wage price spiral and a resetting of expectations among the public towards more inflation.

Nah it’s more complicated than that. The fed is saying that because it’s currently a populist view. However their will to actually cause widespread distress and a severe recession will be tested when the populist view shifts back which we are likely not far from.

If you look at this fed from 2018 on it’s readily apparent that everything they do is to appease the popular narrative. Economy needs rescuing from covid? Okay let’s take rates to zero and pump in liquidity until we’re told to stop.

Fast forward to end of 2021- okay stop stop stop! Inflation is getting out of control! Sure, no problem we will raise rates until you tell us to stop, just signal to us before each meeting exactly how much to do.

That sounds silly but does nobody find it at all odd that every fomc rate decision is entirely arbitrary whether they go 25, 50, 75 or more and yet cnbc predicts the exact rate decision every time? Believe this fed has a modicum of independence at your own peril.

Besides, the Fed’s actions don’t align- if they really wanted a recession why the gradual hikes from 25 when inflation was spiking? Why not a sudden move to say, 7%? It’s been almost a year since the first hike and over a year since they first announced they would be hiking and we’re still sub 5%. The rate hikes they’re doing are way overblown in terms of driving the economy into recession given the tailwind of liquidity we had. Most companies aren’t cutting back because their short term borrowing costs went up 100 bps in six months.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#407

Post by rk06 »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #113
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are seeing a bit of a market downturn - but it hasn’t hit Amazon pocketbook now, has it? Are they in danger of running out of money? What happened to “people are our most important resource”? Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. Also, these people will be laid off with s…

Isn't getting PIP'd and then fired not, "bare minimum to not get fired" though? Sounds like those folks are doing much less than required not to be fired. My understanding of "quiet quitting" was a) it's a stupid term made up to give people a sense that they're in control of something they're not - needing to work to survive and; b) you were explicitly not trying to climb any ladder and merely doing your job as it wa…

"Quiet quitting" is just derogatory term to say "not working unpaid overtime"

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#408

Post by dkrich »

slantedview wrote: post #254
dkrich wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s unusual about this cycle though is that it’s the fear of a recession due to fed policy that is causing companies to cut back. In past cycles fed policy caused a recession nobody predicted and companies suddenly found their earnings in the toilet and made enormous cuts in head count, R&D spending, etc. Something about this cycle and these cuts feels I dunno, manufacturered or something. Like are 7k high paying…

> Something about this cycle and these cuts feels I dunno, manufactured or something. It's absolutely manufactured to the extent that the Fed is intentionally trying to slow demand (aka: cause a recession) in order to stop inflation. The problem is, a large portion of inflation (some indicators are half) is simple price gouging, which Fed measures won't impact, and another large portion is simple ongoing supply chain…

What I mean is that in past cycles companies suddenly found themselves in distress they did not expect.

This time however, everyone is calling for a recession so are battening down the hatches while earnings are still very strong. It’s unprecedented and shows how societies adapt as they learn and focus on new factors.

When the yield curve and the relationship between fed policy and the economy was little known and ignored and instead most people focused on trends in earnings or real estate or whatever the hot thing of the day was, the significance of fed policy and rates was huge. Now everyone is laser focused on the fed which changes behavior which changes outcomes.

The worst recessions blindside virtually everyone and are so severe precisely because people are taking the most risk when things are most dire. Think the lead up to 1929, 2000, 2008, the Florida real estate boom of the 1920’s, etc.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#409

Post by rightbyte »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #369
agentultra wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How excellent do you want to be at generic enterprise CRUD apps? Somebody has to build and maintain them. Have you considered that maybe they’re fine with their level of responsibility and can leave work at the office?

That is usually the part where I shake their hands and wish them luck in their next endeavor. If they are not there because they love working with technology, there are other places for them to be.

Most programming jobs are utterly boring. You are hoarding yes men and people who are good at lying.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#410

Post by dkrich »

redtriumph wrote: post #358
dkrich wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have very little credibility currently because of past miscues beginning in 2018. The fed has to talk tough because if they were to say “we probably aren’t going to hike much more” markets would likely rebound, easing liquidity and making their job of reducing inflation harder if not impossible. The problem is that it seems the bond market sees through this and isn’t buying the tough talk. I think most people be…

> They have very little credibility currently because of past miscues beginning in 2018. Citation for above: https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/161072868776647475...

Exactly and this is because unofficial fed policy is to follow the popular narrative. When it shifts to they have to stop hiking believe me, they will stop hiking.
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