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Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

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Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#81

Post by phpisthebest »

raziel2701 wrote: post #13

It's crazy that AMZN announces this and the stock goes up in after hours trading. People are losing their livelihoods yet rich people only care about the potential higher profits. This is very disconnected from reality, amzn needs consumers to buy their products. If layoffs keep piling up higher and deeper something is going to break and hello recession!

>>people are losing their livelihoods yet rich

Do you have a 401K or retirement account of any type? Chances are you are one of the "rich people" that impact that stock price.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#82

Post by vineyardmike »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

> We are seeing a bit of a market downturn - but it hasn’t hit Amazon pocketbook now, has it? Are they in danger of running out of money? What happened to “people are our most important resource”? Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. Also, these people will be laid off with s…

> They were compensated toward the top of market (considering all tech companies) while they were employed.

Yea but no. This isn’t about Amazon, it’s about business culture writ large. Also not everyone at Amazon is a software engineer, and therefore it paid crazy amounts.

> When some “quiet quits” it’s usually their peers who pay the price because the absentee coworker isn’t get their part of the team project done

Quiet quitting is simply doing your job but not being a “try-hard” and not trying to get ahead or go above-and-beyond. It’s a lack of loyalty and treating your job as a trade of exactly 8hrs with a paycheck. If your coworker wasn’t doing their work, they didn’t quiet quit.

> It’s the coworkers who bear the brunt.

Sounds like a manager (company) treating workers poorly. If a factory had people quit and expected everyone else work extra hours, it’d be a labor violation. If they’re doing that to knowledge workers we say it’s laziness?

Conversely, if you had a coworker who worked 8 hours a day, did their job, and didn’t try to give extra, you shouldn’t fall behind unless management had exploitative expectations.

(Source: I have a soul and work. Managers tried to make me suffer greatly at times).

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#83

Post by vineyardmike »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #72
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

This was covered in ArsTechnica [1] and it seems like they are laying off a large portion of the Alexa team because it doesn't make a profit. I bought the Alexa when it first came out and it had and still has a great UI. When the Alexa launched I made a skill on the platform which I don't think anyone really downloaded. What confused me the most was Amazon never allowed for paid skills (which I really think was an ex…

This is a newer layoff than the one previously covered.

Knowing Amazon, they probably needed people to handle the holiday stress, and now they’re laying off more people.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#84

Post by 8note »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #66
m00x wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make it to L5/6 without being a good engineer. I interviewed several Uber/Amazon engineers and they couldn't solve a simple problem (very easy problem that most bootcamp grads could do). A lot of them get there by being interviewed by other bad engineers, and just float when the market is strong, or use politics to get in a good position. A guy at my company just merges library upgrade PRs blindly. That's all…

> I interviewed several Uber/Amazon engineers and they couldn't solve a simple problem (very easy problem that most bootcamp grads could do). I don't know you personally, and I don't want to start a flame war here, but if there's one thing FAANG senior engineers are good at, it's solving simple coding problems in interviews If you're saying they can't actually proactively get useful work done on their own, or quickly…

If you've moved up from L4 to L6 at a faang, chances are that you haven't spent a lot of time solving simple interviewing coding problems. You've likely spent time on the interviewer side, but the number of problems you're interacting with is small.

At some point, a faang engineer was good at solving those, but that might not be their current state

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#85

Post by WalterBright »

VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

I long ago concluded that the way to make pots o' money is to:

1. go out for a walk. Offer the first good looking man a CEO-ship of your new company.

2. pay him $$$$$

3. hire loads of people

4. fire them all

5. goto 3

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#86

Post by dkrich »

partiallypro wrote: post #49
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

Amazon and all of these companies are laying people off based on future forecasts, not based on the current economy. Regardless of if people are first, no company wants teams sitting around not doing anything. I've been laid off, it sucks, but just because Amazon is making money today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow.

What’s unusual about this cycle though is that it’s the fear of a recession due to fed policy that is causing companies to cut back. In past cycles fed policy caused a recession nobody predicted and companies suddenly found their earnings in the toilet and made enormous cuts in head count, R&D spending, etc.

Something about this cycle and these cuts feels I dunno, manufacturered or something. Like are 7k high paying jobs at a salesforce indicative of an economy collapsing while the overall labor market is still extremely tight and you’re not hearing about similar layoffs throughout all industries?

All of these cuts seem to be follow the leader because we’re worried and I would not be that surprised to see the reality in the overall economy be much better than feared and these same companies hiring again before year end. It probably doesn’t hurt from the c level perspective that Wall Street tends to welcome job cuts at least in the short term. Although it can certainly do lasting damage to morale within a company.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#87

Post by gwright »

ptero wrote: post #73
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

Being able to easily lay off employees means that the companies are much happier hiring, too. Most of those fired will likely land another job soon, precisely because their new employer does not have to treat their hiring as a multi-year commitment. Europe, which makes it very hard to let an employee go, tends to have significantly higher unemployment than the US, which is much more cavalier about layoffs. My 2c.

Almost as if TANSTAAFL.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#88

Post by WalterBright »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #50
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

From yesterday, "Amazon secures $8 billion term loan": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34240271 . So Amazon does seem to want to have extra cash on hand for some reason.

Probably to add it to their Scrooge McDuck cash vault.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#90

Post by spamizbad »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

> We are seeing a bit of a market downturn - but it hasn’t hit Amazon pocketbook now, has it? Are they in danger of running out of money? What happened to “people are our most important resource”? Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. Also, these people will be laid off with s…

The idea behind quiet quitting is based around the idea of shooting for a 3 on a scale of 1-to-5 instead of shooting for a 4 or 5: AFTER management has dropped the ball and failed to acknowledge their efforts. People have twisted this to mean "I am going to do the bare minimum without getting fired" -- these people very quickly end up on PIPs or equivalent at many other companies, not just stricter employers like Amazon.

As an aside, it doesn't really make sense to quiet quit as a SWE for the sole reason of there still a ton of career upside for those who do good work[1]. If you're thinking of quiet quitting you probably just need a better employer.

[1] "Good work" as in people who actually get stuff done and produce good software, not those who merely just grind long hours to impress founders.

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