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Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

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Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#111

Post by metadat »

eqmvii wrote: post #41
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

Companies are in the business of predicting the market in a quarter, a year, 5 years, etc. They got it wrong and overhired. There's ample evidence of that, and of cooling demand - now and in the future.

No company has the slightest clue what the economic environment will look like in 3 years, much less 5.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#112

Post by nkozyra »

VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

This is a wonderful observation.

When I was a kid my dad said "companies won't think twice about dumping you, don't worry about dumping them."

But he worked in the same place for forty years. Sometimes he was treated well, sometimes he wasn't.

It occurs to me what a relic that world is but also how it sounded bizarre when my dad said that to me in the early 00s. At that time there were still "lifers" all over that place. Or people who spent 10-20 years working up in the same company.

That's all gone now. Everything is more ephemeral, more disposable. I'm not sure if it's a good thing but I'm pretty sure signing up to be a "company man" wasn't, either.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#113

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58
VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

> We are seeing a bit of a market downturn - but it hasn’t hit Amazon pocketbook now, has it? Are they in danger of running out of money? What happened to “people are our most important resource”? Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. Also, these people will be laid off with s…

Isn't getting PIP'd and then fired not, "bare minimum to not get fired" though?

Sounds like those folks are doing much less than required not to be fired.

My understanding of "quiet quitting" was

a) it's a stupid term made up to give people a sense that they're in control of something they're not - needing to work to survive and;

b) you were explicitly not trying to climb any ladder and merely doing your job as it was described, not shooting for promotions or accolades of any kind.

"Quiet quit" team members are 100% fine to have around IMO, as long as they stay out of the way of the folks trying to take on the larger/harder problems. That's the thing I reject about modern workplaces: this idea that everyone has to be "progressing" or "climbing" all the time.

It's totally cool to punch in/punch out 9-5, it just needs to be clear that's what the role is, and how much that reduces your ability to determine what it is you work on during those hours.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#114

Post by fnordpiglet »

VincentEvans wrote: post #36

Here’s a thought that has been percolating in my mind for a bit since these “market adjustments” began a month or two back. Somehow at some point, in what perhaps could be blamed on the ever-hated mass produced MBAs - companies got really comfortable with the “it’s not personal, it’s just good business” of letting go of their employees for a slightest reason, or sometimes for no reason at all - just to make it look t…

“Quiet quitting” = rational behavior

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#115

Post by laidoffamazon »

zmgsabst wrote: post #107
laidoffamazon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this is a new target for the anti-woke axe grinding - corporate CFO's. Never thought I'd see it honestly. I think it's an interesting synthesis of the corporate-skeptical populist ideology with the non-white skeptical racialist ideology, so I guess we should be expecting far more of this in the next two years. Thankfully, I think most people this is just kinda weird culture war BS.

I understand you’re trying to dismiss a CFO sponsoring the murder of Antonio Mays Jr and working to rebuild systemic racism with name calling. I think that shows a lack of morals on your part.

No, like most people I think your hangups are just really weird. I guess it'll take until November 2024 for that to sink in for you.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#116

Post by laidoffamazon »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #69
laidoffamazon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which companies do have good mid level engineers then, if you believe L5's at Amazon are stupid?

He didn’t say that L5’s at Amazon are stupid. He said that there are lots of L5’s at Amazon who are bad engineers. It doesn’t even have to be a majority rather than a noticeable minority.

Eh, it's a big enough minority that it paints all of us (as someone that used to be an Amazon L5 who constantly received microaggressions from others for being "stupid" because I worked at Amazon) poorly.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#117

Post by HDThoreaun »

metadat wrote: post #111
eqmvii wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are in the business of predicting the market in a quarter, a year, 5 years, etc. They got it wrong and overhired. There's ample evidence of that, and of cooling demand - now and in the future.

No company has the slightest clue what the economic environment will look like in 3 years, much less 5.

Hence the layoffs. They still have to try though

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#118

Post by zmgsabst »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #115
zmgsabst wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you’re trying to dismiss a CFO sponsoring the murder of Antonio Mays Jr and working to rebuild systemic racism with name calling. I think that shows a lack of morals on your part.

No, like most people I think your hangups are just really weird. I guess it'll take until November 2024 for that to sink in for you.

I understand you find Brian O’s racism and funding of terrorists who shoot black kids to be normal — even something that you’re proud of. And that you find it strange people would object to that.

I think you’ll be surprised that outside your bubble, most Americans don’t support CFOs funding terrorists that murder children.

Again, I think this points to a clear lack of morals from you.

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#119

Post by kneebonian »

spamizbad wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are seeing a bit of a market downturn - but it hasn’t hit Amazon pocketbook now, has it? Are they in danger of running out of money? What happened to “people are our most important resource”? Companies plan for where the market is going, not last quarter’s results. It’s fully clear to everyone that the economy has shifted dramatically. They are adjusting as appropriate. Also, these people will be laid off with s…

The idea behind quiet quitting is based around the idea of shooting for a 3 on a scale of 1-to-5 instead of shooting for a 4 or 5: AFTER management has dropped the ball and failed to acknowledge their efforts. People have twisted this to mean "I am going to do the bare minimum without getting fired" -- these people very quickly end up on PIPs or equivalent at many other companies, not just stricter employers like Ama…

"I have six bosses bob, my only real motivation is not to get hassled that and fear of losing my job. But here's the thing bob, that gets someone to work just hard enough to avoid getting fired." - Office Space

Re: Amazon to Lay Off over 17,000 Workers, More Than First Planned

#120

Post by lapcat »

metadat wrote: post #111
eqmvii wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are in the business of predicting the market in a quarter, a year, 5 years, etc. They got it wrong and overhired. There's ample evidence of that, and of cooling demand - now and in the future.

No company has the slightest clue what the economic environment will look like in 3 years, much less 5.

So true. Which company predicted there would be a global pandemic starting at the end of 2019? None. Impossible to predict. Which company predicted 9/11? None. Shit happens, and nobody is a prophet.
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