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Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

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Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#371
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also my impression after reading Isaacson's biography and Creativity, Inc. At Pixar, he behaved like a feudal lord because he pretty much owned the place and they relied on his money to keep the lights on.

I remember Isaacson's interview of Woznick, and The Woz stated he felt Jobs could have done most of the great things he did without being a jerk. In other words, the jerkiness appeared to be a quirk and not a business tool from Woz's perspective. But then again, the Woz often didn't understand the marketing side of things, according to some of his critics.

Spelling correction: "Wozniak", that is Steve Wozniak.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far I haven't seen a counter experience from you about how Jobs treated the "regular workers" at Pixar, so as I see it, it's a quote from people who were close to what happened versus the absence of a counter experience.

Oh please. Googling "steve jobs bully pixar" reveals at least one story of horrible behavior directed toward regular staff members. Jobs could be a bully, it's well documented. Pixar wasn't somehow immune to this behavior. You've painted a utilitarian, partisan viewpoint: that the cultural and technological significance of Pixar outweighs any negative experiences of staff. The two are not easily comparable. How do yo…

The thought experiment doesn't depend on Jobs knowing or not.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#373
post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

A bully? It's business. If he can get Google to not hire people just by being tough on the phone that's a win. Costs almost nothing. My father once worked at an electronics contracting firm. One of his co-workers who was in charge of purchasing parts was masterful while on the phone with suppliers. He drove a very hard bargain and often shouted and swore at suppliers to extract the best prices. Bullying or business?

I thought you were supposed to buy them good bourbon and take them golfing/to the strip club, not yell at them.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joined just before the Pre launch straight out of university so at the time I was still very very green and didn’t have special insights. I think there were three main challenges. The first is we bet wrong on 2 strategic directions: physical keyboards (blinded because of history / Blackberry making us think it was an important market segment that would resist Apple) and screen size (trying to zig and capture value…

Thank you for all this additional information. It makes sense and I am willing to side with you based on what you wrote. edit: WebOS ended up being good though ( between touchpad and now LG it is actually my preference ). Can you elaborate on how big a difference it is between now and then ( are they tied by name only )?

I didn't keep track of WebOS after I left Palm when it was acquired by HP. AFAIK there were some OG people still on it and some of the stack was still the same. I met one of the people at a Palm reunion many years later and he was complaining that PBNJSON was still in use. This was a significantly better / faster / more secure C++ JSON library I wrote (both had better test coverage and things like formal schema validation which wasn't a thing at that time for JSON). It was severely delayed in getting open-sourced and then it seems like no one really is invested in updating this part of WebOS, otherwise they would have replaced it with RapidJSON or even better Rust Serde or something like it.

As I said, today it's fine and AFAIK it's also on car infotaintment systems (the ARM ecosystem is way more mature with respect to web / JIT + much better supporting ecosystem). It's less clear to me if they still use a normal Linux ARM kernel or if they've switched to Android. The biggest problem with us not using Android is that Android sucked up all the oxygen and device vendors built Android instead of Linux drivers / provided binary blobs that only worked on Android. This increased costs because those drivers needed to be ported to normal Linux.

However, most (all?) of the really talented designers that pioneered WebOS got snapped up by Google and Apple. So did a lot of senior engineering talent (probably moreso by Google since a lot of them were already ex-Apple and not keen to return).

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a jerk is always bad. The only difference is that people who aren't "paying the piper" don't get away with it for very long before someone throws them out. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean it's ok.

Playing devil's advocate, I'm honestly not sure how I'd behave if I dropped a $10 million personal fortune[1] (1986 dollars; $27.2 million buying power today) for controlling stake in a venture and execution wasn't going as I had envisioned. Being a "jerk" might strike me as an acceptable trade-off if that meant it got targeted impediments out of the way without irreparable damage to the whole. [1] https://web.archiv…

> Playing devil's advocate, I'm honestly not sure how I'd behave if I dropped a $10 million personal fortune[1] (1986 dollars; $27.2 million buying power today) for controlling stake in a venture and execution wasn't going as I had envisioned. Being a "jerk" might strike me as an acceptable trade-off if that meant it got targeted impediments out of the way without irreparable damage to the whole.

> [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20050427012806/http://alvyray.co...

So if someone spent for example 44*10^9 dollars on some venture, would it still be ok to be jerk, or would it be counterproductive to viability of such investment?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#376
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was a dick. And there was a strong trend around 2010-2015ish that essentially said "Jobs was a dick and a genius. Therefore I must act like a dick, to prove that I'm a genius". So many startup CEOs acting like assholes to prove they're revolutionary visionaries.

Case in point: Bill Nguyen: The Boy In The Bubble https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3229299#3230401 https://www.fastcompany.com/1784823/bill-nguyen-the-boy-in-t... >“I never use anyone else’s products but my own. I literally don’t think there’s anything to be learned from other people’s stuff,” says Nguyen. >And then, that very night, everything came crashing down. Color execs started noticing that users were quic…

Is seeding generating fake users who look real, to create the illusion of a popular app?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#377
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming that only new grads and immigrants fearful of deportation worked at Pixar?

Depends on how much of Jobs' current reputation is accurate vs. mythologising.

Jobs was a well-known sociopath but also people of the highest talent level fought to work for him because he was a great executive

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Stupid” isn’t the word I would use for following your interests rather than what others would like you to do

Stupid is the word I would use for discovering that you have pancreatic cancer and then believing the best course of action is to reject effective medical treatment and "cure" it with an all-carrot diet. Stupid is the word I would use to posthumously describe the interests of Isaac Newton. I admit that it would have been difficult to recognise the stupidity of occult studies in 18th century England, but we can certai…

>Stupid is the word I would use to posthumously describe the interests of Isaac Newton. I admit that it would have been difficult to recognise the stupidity of occult studies in 18th century England, but we can certainly apply that label with the benefit of a modern perspective.

It seemed to work for Jack Parsons. And many other very creative people.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#379
post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

Nope, Steve Jobs, like most elitists, think the free market only applies to their whims.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#380
post #332
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he just a bully? From everything I've read in the last twenty years, there was not one single facet of Steve Jobs' life in which he was not a bully.

I think that fact could be reflected in his use of coffee enemas to treat his pancreatic cancer that was easily treatable with chemotherapy which the coffee enemas ultimately resulted in his own death.

"easily treatable"

Let's not get carried away here.

"According to the American Cancer Society, for all stages of pancreatic cancer combined, the one-year relative survival rate is 20%, and the five-year rate is 9%."

And don't forget, Steve Jobs died in 2011, which means treatment was being received for years prior. That's 12+ years ago.

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