Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#191

Post by eyelidlessness » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:08 AM UTC

chc wrote: post #133

throwaway82388 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand your larger point, but whatever corrections or amendments need to be made to the myth of Jobs, the idea that he was in any way average shouldn’t be one.

The dude basically chose to die of treatable cancer in his 50s because he just didn't like the idea of getting medical treatment. That's one of the most odd behaviors I've ever heard of.

That’s one of the most human and common behaviors I can think of, and one of the ones I find most humanizing about him as a person who’s so caricatured. He was this giant, right? Saw the future of so many things others couldn’t see, yeah? And his own health suffered because he couldn’t meet the present facts of it with any kind of realistic acceptance. That’s just… some guy, could be any one of my family or someone you know. He was a flawed, normal, person, with… a story which is why we’re discussing it.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#192

Post by simondotau » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:10 AM UTC

loganc2342 wrote: post #183

simondotau wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of incredibly smart people think and do incredibly stupid things. Isaac Newton was one of the greatest mathematicians and physicists of history, inventor of the telescope, father of Newtonian mechanics, and a key figure of the Enlightenment. Yet he considered that scientific work of lesser importance, spending much of his effort studying the occult, biblical interpretation, and alchemy.

“Stupid” isn’t the word I would use for following your interests rather than what others would like you to do

Stupid is the word I would use for discovering that you have pancreatic cancer and then believing the best course of action is to reject effective medical treatment and "cure" it with an all-carrot diet.

Stupid is the word I would use to posthumously describe the interests of Isaac Newton. I admit that it would have been difficult to recognise the stupidity of occult studies in 18th century England, but we can certainly apply that label with the benefit of a modern perspective.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#193

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:11 AM UTC

afroisalreadyin wrote: post #181

causi wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he just a bully? From everything I've read in the last twenty years, there was not one single facet of Steve Jobs' life in which he was not a bully.

This is also my impression after reading Isaacson's biography and Creativity, Inc. At Pixar, he behaved like a feudal lord because he pretty much owned the place and they relied on his money to keep the lights on.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#194

Post by eyelidlessness » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:12 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #88

eyelidlessness wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s simpler than that. He was an average person. Had a lot of business acumen, particularly well timed vision (after a bunch of poor timing), then he was a really successful guy who was just as flawed as the rest of us.

> He was an average person. Average people tend to at least care about their own children. Jobs treated his own appallingly badly.

It’s amazing to me what is being read into “average” here. I mean he was mere mortal, flaws and all. No better than John Lennon, who was also historically remarkable, and similarly a shitty dad.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#195

Post by eyelidlessness » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:17 AM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #75

eyelidlessness wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s some nuance: anyone so talented they warrant legal action over a fight to employ them already knows they’re very talented. Being their stakes in a war over strategic business goals isn’t more affirming, it’s almost certainly less. It’s (almost invariably) not cool to be someone else’s meat. Even if you know you’re very highly valued meat, and even if they affirm that your value as meat is very high indeed.

I'm sure they can comfort themselves on the quarter to half a million annual they were being paid instead of the half a million to three quarters of a million a zero collusion market would have offered them. ;)

“Got table scraps; good table scraps, could’ve been better mind you, not especially great; enriched a few.” There, I think I know what to put in my will as how I will wish to be remembered.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#196

Post by ggm » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:19 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #193

afroisalreadyin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also my impression after reading Isaacson's biography and Creativity, Inc. At Pixar, he behaved like a feudal lord because he pretty much owned the place and they relied on his money to keep the lights on.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

You're saying serfdom and bullying is justified by .. art?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#197

Post by endorphine » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:21 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #193

afroisalreadyin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also my impression after reading Isaacson's biography and Creativity, Inc. At Pixar, he behaved like a feudal lord because he pretty much owned the place and they relied on his money to keep the lights on.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

Whether it's "a small price to pay" depends on each and every individual that paid the price.

I don't think it makes any sense for 1 single person to decide if the price paid was small, simply because they don't know what actual price was paid (in terms of suffering).

Also, it sounds to me that's you're assuming that's a necessitated price to pay, which I don't believe is true (but I don't have any examples either).

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#198

Post by ggm » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:22 AM UTC

dotancohen wrote: post #145

nikanj wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was a dick. And there was a strong trend around 2010-2015ish that essentially said "Jobs was a dick and a genius. Therefore I must act like a dick, to prove that I'm a genius". So many startup CEOs acting like assholes to prove they're revolutionary visionaries.

I think that Oracle was well-known as being proudly led by One Real Asshole Called Larry Elison long before Steve Jobs was ever called a dick.

They're strict contemporary in that space. Jobs was being unspeakable at the same time Ellison started oracle.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#199

Post by no_butterscotch » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:23 AM UTC

thayne wrote: post #89

gzer0 wrote: post #78

The tech giants ultimately reached a settlement in the amount of $400 million in a lawsuit involving allegations of these dishonest backdoor dealings. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33292364 [2] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306592297...

And financially, it was probably worth it to them.

It was, from the wikipedia:

> On May 23, 2014, Apple, Google, Intel, Adobe agreed to settle for $324.5 million.

> ..

> In June 2014, Judge Lucy Koh expressed concern that the settlement may not be a good one for the plaintiffs. Michael Devine, one of the plaintiffs, said the settlement is unjust. In a letter he wrote to the judge he said the settlement represents only one-tenth of the $3 billion in compensation the 64,000 workers could have made if the defendants had not colluded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#200

Post by piyush_soni » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 8:25 AM UTC

nigamanth wrote: post #171

causi wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he just a bully? From everything I've read in the last twenty years, there was not one single facet of Steve Jobs' life in which he was not a bully.

They were competing, to Jobs it could've looked like either Apple or Google was going to stay alive. It is natural for people to threaten competition and I guess not like your competition?

You mean it's natural for CEOs to literally threaten other CEOs?