Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#241

Post by ben_w » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:41 AM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #233

ben_w wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting an unreal scenario, so the thought experiment isn't going to do much good, IMO. Each employee gets to make that call themselves, "do I want to be treated badly?" Fresh graduates may not realise they are being treated badly, lacking a frame of reference. Immigrants may be on a visa where they have no choice but to put up with it or leave the country. Locals who've been around a bit, who know their di…

Are you claiming that only new grads and immigrants fearful of deportation worked at Pixar?

Depends on how much of Jobs' current reputation is accurate vs. mythologising.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#242

Post by complex_exp » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:42 AM UTC

kriz9 wrote: post #236

wodenokoto wrote: post #216

Do we know who “redacted” is? I’ve heard stories that Google set up development office in Denmark because one of their V8 developers wanted to move home and he was “that good” that it was worth setting up an office just to keep him on staff.

Lars Bak? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programmer)

He never worked in Apple, no?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#243

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:44 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #239

mshake2 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an unreal scenario at all. It's entirely plausible that a company falls apart when lacking the specific motivators and pressures that Jobs brought, and therefore never really exists in the first place. What's unreal about that?

The unreal part is there being only two options. Most dichotomies are false.

I addressed why the hypothetical is limited to two options, and taking a subset of plausible scenarios does not reduce the plausibility of the selected scenarios.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#244

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:45 AM UTC

vanviegen wrote: post #223

mshake2 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

”Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."

That's Dreamworks, not Pixar, but nice reference

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#245

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:47 AM UTC

causi wrote: post #235

mshake2 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

It being worth it does not determine whether he was an asshole, just whether you are glad he was.

Why wouldn't I be glad for something that I thought was worth it? Not really sure what you're trying to say.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#246

Post by ben_w » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:53 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #220

pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

> Is he just a bully? He was just a capitalist. That's how capitalism works, by definition, i.e. extracting the most surplus-value from the workers (in this case the Apple employees). Increased their salaries (i.e. making a "better offer") would have decreased the surplus-value extracted by Jobs, hence why he was angry.

It's deeper than capitalism, power-acquisition is such a fundamental part of agents that it's part of the problem space for "how do we pre-emptively prevent an AI dystopia?"

Capitalism is[0] "huh, even greedy people can be useful, because their greed is best served by supplying other people's needs".

[0] or, I should say, some forms of it are, because Laissez-faire died with the New Deal as hard and for the same reasons as USSR-style Communism (the economic system not the dictatorship)

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#247

Post by tsimionescu » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:53 AM UTC

maxehmookau wrote: post #189

Is "billionaires not using correct capitalization and punctuation to appear too important" a thing? Elon Musk seems to do the same thing, and it always surprises me.

Good grammar, capitalization, punctuation, and vocabulary are class signifiers. These become pretty irrelevant at the highest echelons of class, and intentionally breaking them starts being a sign of personal style.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#248

Post by quartesixte » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:54 AM UTC

yamtaddle wrote: post #35

fragmede wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the millions of dollars in damages these emails caused, I'm pretty sure they went back to unsubpoenable smoke filled rooms, minus the smoke. Hell, the CEO of Twitter flew especially to Apple HQ to get their advertising spend reinstated. He wouldn't have done that if whatever he needed to say could've been said over email.

I suspect corporate collusion (and a fair amount of arranging corrupt mutual back-scratching for purely personal gain) like this is the bulk of the nefarious activity that actually goes on at all those various weird secret rich-people club meetings/getaways that are in fact real things and often serve as fodder for various far-wilder conspiracy theories.

Suspect? This is literally what Country Clubs are for.

Ever work on a project for the C-suite that had a lot of urgency, some strange amount of substance and a huge amount of bs that resulted in some huge action/deal but when you sit back and think about it nothing really of value was made?

Yeah you just worked on the coverup for the country club deal that got made weeks ago.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#249

Post by ben_w » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:56 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #243

ben_w wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unreal part is there being only two options. Most dichotomies are false.

I addressed why the hypothetical is limited to two options, and taking a subset of plausible scenarios does not reduce the plausibility of the selected scenarios.

P(a) = 0.1, P(b) = 0.1, P(c) = 0.8, "Oh, let's only look at cases a and b".

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#250

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:56 AM UTC

causi wrote: post #237

mshake2 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Steve took a chance on us and believed in our crazy dream of making computer-animated films; the one thing he always said was to simply 'make it great.' He is why Pixar turned out the way we did and his strength, integrity, and love of life has made us all better people. He will forever be a part of Pixar's DNA."

You're quoting the top two Pixar executives, and from immediately after Jobs' death as well. How about someone who isn't a millionaire? aren't credible because they became so successful that they're now millionaire executives Yes that's what I'm saying. The statement of two men who stood at the top of the ladder about the man who put them there immediately after that man has died is absolutely not credible in regards…

So far I haven't seen a counter experience from you about how Jobs treated the "regular workers" at Pixar, so as I see it, it's a quote from people who were close to what happened versus the absence of a counter experience.