Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#231

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:13 AM UTC

citizen-stig wrote: post #224

mshake2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the two options are "Pixar exists, but some employees were treated unfairly" or "Pixar never exists", I will choose the first. Whether or not there are other options is not a hypothetical I care about, I am interested in thinking about the morality of ends vs means of this scenario.

It is easy to choose for others, isn’t it?

"Steve took a chance on us and believed in our crazy dream of making computer-animated films; the one thing he always said was to simply 'make it great.' He is why Pixar turned out the way we did and his strength, integrity, and love of life has made us all better people. He will forever be a part of Pixar's DNA."

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#232

Post by tuyiown » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

wahnfrieden wrote: post #63

JKCalhoun wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't make that bet. Jobs played favorites and I believe he was known to amply reward his favorites.

this email's aim is to suppress market wages. you're mythologizing and neglecting the market-wide knock-on effects of rampant illegal wage theft collusion like this.

I think it's purely a strategic tech stance. Google building an at least on-par browser competing with safari was not good for apple, and the faster way to achieve that for google was to poach engineers, especially that the iPhone was probably in the pipes at this time.

For engineer, compensation is not everything, regardless of money, going to google to build a browser would easily look like a good idea at the time.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#233

Post by spoonjim » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:23 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #214

mshake2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the two options are "Pixar exists, but some employees were treated unfairly" or "Pixar never exists", I will choose the first. Whether or not there are other options is not a hypothetical I care about, I am interested in thinking about the morality of ends vs means of this scenario.

You're suggesting an unreal scenario, so the thought experiment isn't going to do much good, IMO. Each employee gets to make that call themselves, "do I want to be treated badly?" Fresh graduates may not realise they are being treated badly, lacking a frame of reference. Immigrants may be on a visa where they have no choice but to put up with it or leave the country. Locals who've been around a bit, who know their di…

Are you claiming that only new grads and immigrants fearful of deportation worked at Pixar?

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#234

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:27 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #57

I don’t understand Jobs’ logic here. Is he just a bully? If Google makes such a great offer that his employee will leave him, shouldn’t he try to make a better offer, or meet with the employee instead of calling Sergey? Say he did get the offer canceled. How would this employee feel about working for a CEO that does this?

[deleted]

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#235

Post by causi » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:30 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #193

afroisalreadyin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also my impression after reading Isaacson's biography and Creativity, Inc. At Pixar, he behaved like a feudal lord because he pretty much owned the place and they relied on his money to keep the lights on.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

It being worth it does not determine whether he was an asshole, just whether you are glad he was.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#236

Post by kriz9 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:33 AM UTC

wodenokoto wrote: post #216

Do we know who “redacted” is? I’ve heard stories that Google set up development office in Denmark because one of their V8 developers wanted to move home and he was “that good” that it was worth setting up an office just to keep him on staff.

Lars Bak? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programmer)

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#237

Post by causi » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:33 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #231

citizen-stig wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to choose for others, isn’t it?

"Steve took a chance on us and believed in our crazy dream of making computer-animated films; the one thing he always said was to simply 'make it great.' He is why Pixar turned out the way we did and his strength, integrity, and love of life has made us all better people. He will forever be a part of Pixar's DNA."

You're quoting the top two Pixar executives, and from immediately after Jobs' death as well. How about someone who isn't a millionaire?

aren't credible because they became so successful that they're now millionaire executives

Yes that's what I'm saying. The statement of two men who stood at the top of the ladder about the man who put them there immediately after that man has died is absolutely not credible in regards to judging how that man treated regular workers. At all.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#238

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:38 AM UTC

breck wrote: post #225

mshake2 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a small price to pay to assemble the most innovative animation studio that would bring joy to millions of people for decades.

Amen brother. He was not a "bully". He was a coach. A tough coach. Anyone could have walked away. No one was being forced to work at a top .1% company in the world. If you were there it's because you wanted to be do your best work and be part of the best. You wanted to make the world a better place. You believed in the power of these devices to do good, and to fight evil. Jobs wasn't out there hurting civilians on th…

[flagged]

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#239

Post by ben_w » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:41 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #222

ben_w wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting an unreal scenario, so the thought experiment isn't going to do much good, IMO. Each employee gets to make that call themselves, "do I want to be treated badly?" Fresh graduates may not realise they are being treated badly, lacking a frame of reference. Immigrants may be on a visa where they have no choice but to put up with it or leave the country. Locals who've been around a bit, who know their di…

It's not an unreal scenario at all. It's entirely plausible that a company falls apart when lacking the specific motivators and pressures that Jobs brought, and therefore never really exists in the first place. What's unreal about that?

The unreal part is there being only two options. Most dichotomies are false.

Re: Sergey Brin: Irate Call from Steve Jobs

#240

Post by mshake2 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 9:41 AM UTC

causi wrote: post #237

mshake2 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Steve took a chance on us and believed in our crazy dream of making computer-animated films; the one thing he always said was to simply 'make it great.' He is why Pixar turned out the way we did and his strength, integrity, and love of life has made us all better people. He will forever be a part of Pixar's DNA."

You're quoting the top two Pixar executives, and from immediately after Jobs' death as well. How about someone who isn't a millionaire? aren't credible because they became so successful that they're now millionaire executives Yes that's what I'm saying. The statement of two men who stood at the top of the ladder about the man who put them there immediately after that man has died is absolutely not credible in regards…

A legendary animator and director, both who helped found Pixar with Jobs, aren't credible because they became so successful that they're now millionaire executives?