Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#361

Post by softwaredoug » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 12:56 PM UTC

I had a very smothering mother. Someone a bit too much into parenting for her own emotional needs, rather than her children’s. So you can imagine independence was subtly discouraged.

At the same time my Father came from a traditionally wealthy family. While we were not wealthy, his family consisted of successful lawyers, doctors, and entrepreneurs. So there was a lot of pressure to choose a somewhat preordained path to success.

A therapist encouraged me to focus on my own independence in young adulthood, including standing up and being more assertive with my parents. So I really blossomed much more in college choosing my own path away from my parents.

All to say a lot of what happens is parents have kids for their own needs, and end up neglecting who their kids are and want to be. How much here is American cultural issue? How much is a problem in all cultures? Certainly you see other notably workaholic cultures really put this pressure on kids to succeed and focus on serving the older generation.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#362

Post by svnt » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:00 PM UTC

moistly wrote: post #264

bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it possible maybe the problem is they are just a bit too entitled on average, and when things don't go perfectly they can't cope? Maybe it's that things today are generally just worse than they used to be. It is generally harder to "cope" as a younger person than it was 20-40 years ago.

In the late seventies/early eighties we grew up believing we were going to die in a nuclear holocaust. Have you watched “The Day After” and “Threads”? Way worse on a child’s psyche than “Don’t Look Up” because doesn’t depict survival in an irradiated apocalypse of pain, wounds, death, and deprivation: everyone just gathers for a nice dinner and instant obliteration. We Gen-X coped with the grim possibility of nuclear…

They don’t, but Gen X had Boomer or Silent generation parents who mostly refused to relate emotionally. So punk, angst, grunge made its way into public communication instead.

Gen Z is lucky in a sense to have mostly Gen X or younger parents, who are like, yeah, it sucks, I feel you.

This is validating for Gen Z is a wonderful way and I hope that everyone complaining about emotional entitlement can come to understand that while it may be uncomfortable for them because they don’t speak the language, it is not a weakness, it is a strength.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#363

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

“Students talk about conflict like it’s this terrible thing,” Mallon said in an interview. “Is it that they’re afraid of [conflict], or are they lacking in experience?"

It might also be that school and society has conditioned them to be this way. They've been told what feel about this subject.

When I went to school, fights were fairly rare, but they did happen. Usually they were minor without any serious injuries. Your punishment was usually several detentions, saying you're sorry, and your parents punishing you at home. Now, the police get called. One mistake and your life may be ruined.

Of course independence would benefit kids. Imagine being constantly watched, told where to be, told what you can and cannot do, etc. You're like an animal born at the zoo. All you know is your exhibit - a curated world with specially designed limits. You wouldn't last a day in the natural world where risks exist, but would be manageable with the proper knowledge/experience.

The main problem is that there is a lot of risk involved with that - legal risks. Whether that's someone calling the cops on an unattended child, or being responsible for any civil damages cause by a child, etc.

One additional point related to the zoo example... domestic animals are not as smart as their wild counterparts. In theory, they didn't need to problem solve since they were being taken care of. I think it's much the same for people. Take someone's phone. Now what do they actually know how to do without looking at instructions or a video?

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#364

Post by tlogan » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:03 PM UTC

rychco wrote: post #221

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

The type suburb we build today are one of reasons. At least it enforces that behavior in parents.

Then there is also “no screen time” so the kid will not learn how to behave online, not able to detect scammers, understand things like privacy and trust, etc.

And there are also laws: you might get in trouble if you leave your 15 year old alone overnight. And when 17 not more than 2 nights. But they can join army at 18.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#365

Post by hef19898 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #363

“Students talk about conflict like it’s this terrible thing,” Mallon said in an interview. “Is it that they’re afraid of [conflict], or are they lacking in experience?" It might also be that school and society has conditioned them to be this way. They've been told what feel about this subject. When I went to school, fights were fairly rare, but they did happen. Usually they were minor without any serious injuries. Yo…

This refusal, at any cost it seems sometimes, to accept certain conflicts as being a necessary part of social interaction drives me crazy sometimes. Because without adressing the conflict, tensions will only build up until it really gets nasty.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#366

Post by TylerE » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:07 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #319

kazinator wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of zoning reform can fix the fact that it's not safe for kids in America, because it's crawling with predators. Even if you have school, shop, friends, and all that, within four blocks of each other.

> because it's crawling with predators Indeed. The vast majority of danger to kids comes from people they know and trust. Most kidnappings are custody disputes, for example.

And most child sex abuse is perpetrated by family

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#367

Post by brchn » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

gardenhedge wrote: post #284

moistly wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mid-fifties older adult, every one of your points rings true.

Both of you think climate change is slowly creeping up on us? It's been banging on the door for quite some time

Splitting hairs, they’re on your side

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#368

Post by theshrike79 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #363

“Students talk about conflict like it’s this terrible thing,” Mallon said in an interview. “Is it that they’re afraid of [conflict], or are they lacking in experience?" It might also be that school and society has conditioned them to be this way. They've been told what feel about this subject. When I went to school, fights were fairly rare, but they did happen. Usually they were minor without any serious injuries. Yo…

"Calling the cops on an unattended child" is so very HOA-cul-de-sac American that it's hard to even fathom for a non-American.

Over here (in the Nordics) kids walk/bike to school every day. In Finland the limit is 5km IIRC, after that you get a taxi or bus ride. Kids travel alone to their hobbies, again by walking, biking or public transport.

I do use Apple's Find My on my offspring, but only to see how much of a warning I need to give them to get home for dinner (are they next door or at their friend's house farther away).

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#369

Post by giantg2 » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

rychco wrote: post #221

jasonhansel wrote: post #9

> Chentsova Dutton said America has an international reputation for prizing autonomy, but her study opened her eyes to a more complicated picture. American parents tend to be overprotective when children are young, acting as if kids are going to live at home for a long time, like parents do in Italy. Yet they also expect children to live away from home fairly early for college, like families do in Germany. The result…

The stereotypical American helicopter-parent/soccer-mom can be viewed as a direct result of poor zoning practices & the resulting suburban sprawl. A typical child is completely incapable of going anywhere without the guidance of a car-driving parent. It is unlikely, either on foot or bike, that they are able to get to school, get to/from sports practice, meet with friends, shop at local stores, run errands, have a pa…

Not really true.

Sure, some experiences require a car. But there are tons of things that don't, even in more isolated areas. When I lived in a fairly rural neighborhood, there weren't tons of kids, but one or two families typically. You learned how to get along with them and become friends. You could go anywhere in the neighborhood if you told your parents. You could even ride your bike on trails to the local college a few miles away (once you got older 12+ or so). You could shoot off model rockets in the local open space (not exactly a park, just an open field). Go fishing, build a fort in the woods at your friend's (yes, using sharp tools), play some sort of unorganized sport, etc. You couldn't have a real job without a car, but I certainly made money other ways such as babysitting, selling bird houses, etc.

I later lived in a rural town. Even though there was more stuff to do there, I went out less. More of the things cost money there and there was less open space. But you could walk to stores and stuff.

So the option is there, particularly if they aren't already biased to only participate in preconceived ideas of what activities should be.

Re: Young adults and mental health: Is more childhood independence the answer?

#370

Post by jayant_kaushik » Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 1:19 PM UTC

williamtrask wrote: post #163

xabotage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There won't be an exact replacement because the circumstances that led to the community cannot (or rather, should not) be replicated. For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap. Keep in mind that high-demand religions require a huge investment of time and money. Devoting even just a fraction of those resources to hobbies, ar…

> For the sake of the survival of the planet/species, I also don't think any institution based around magical thinking should fill the gap. I know this won’t be a popular point, but I think we have nearly all of human history as evidence that “magical believing” societies survive more effectively than not. At any time literally any tribe could have chosen to believe in nothing. It’s almost impossible to think that no…

> I know this won’t be a popular point, but I think we have nearly all of human history as evidence that “magical believing” societies survive more effectively than not.

Not true. Majority of progress human civilisation made happened in last 100-200 yrs. in the industrial revolution and Information Age. None of them were based upon “magical” concepts but only science, hard work and facts. Infact it has been the most pragmatic time in human history.

We would soon land on Mars within this century, exponentially increasing the chances of survival of human specie in the very long run. Plans already underway for moon as well. All of this would be made possible by people who believe in pure facts and science and not in magical things. I think the “magical believing” phase occurred due to 1) extreme fear of adverse events(floods/volcanoes) or the things unknown to humans (how does it rain? We don’t know. Let’s create a rain god and keep them happy so it doesn’t run erratically. Try that now with Climate change on our head, rain or cold wave patterns won’t change even if 7bn people worship a rain god today). But now that humans know a lot of these answers, the era of scientific truths begun and will continue forever. Would be interesting to see where religion goes in next 50 yrs.