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A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

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Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#21

Post by cjbgkagh »

exmadscientist wrote: post #12
amelius wrote: post #7

Posted this (about externally stimulating the vagus nerve) a while back because it looked interesting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201... I bought the equipment to try this myself (basically a TENS device and some electrodes), but have been too afraid to apply it :/

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of others: it is very possible to kill yourself if you do this wrong. The vagus nerve (or its mirror on the opposite side of your face, I forget, it's been a while since I worked on this and I've never particularly wanted to revisit it) is involved in pacing your heart. Screw it up and you can end up very dead of cardiac arrest. So be careful trying this stuff at ho…

I’ve heard of people giving themselves permanent vertigo, a condition with a notably high suicide rate which should be an indication for just how bad it is.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#22

Post by user_7832 »

jeremycarter wrote: post #15
exmadscientist wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of others: it is very possible to kill yourself if you do this wrong. The vagus nerve (or its mirror on the opposite side of your face, I forget, it's been a while since I worked on this and I've never particularly wanted to revisit it) is involved in pacing your heart. Screw it up and you can end up very dead of cardiac arrest. So be careful trying this stuff at ho…

Important advice. As a person who has PVCs and PACs I would say avoid anything that isn't medical grade and advised by your cardiologist/specialist doctor.

Sorry, what’s PVC and PAC in this context?

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#23

Post by gardenfelder »

consumer451 wrote: post #6
GoToRO wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why tomatoes and potatoes?

Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to…

Here's a clustered search on nightshade and arthritis of pubmed

https://search.carrot2.org/#/search/pubmed/Nightshade%20and%...

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#24

Post by michaelmrose »

psychphysic wrote: post #11
consumer451 wrote: post #3

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

It's worth drawing a thick distinction between rheumatoid (autoimmune) and osteoarthritis (worn out).

Thank you. My wife suffers from this and its night and day different from osteoarthritis and my wife who has has been offered plenty of ridiculous "cures" that people somehow believe highly paid specialists just haven't though of.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#25

Post by gardenfelder »

hammock wrote: post #19
voisin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share any of the science you’ve come across that you find compelling based on sample size, effect side, etc? I’d love to know dosages.

It’s more of a meta analysis in my mind of all the different studies and anecdotes I’ve osmoted over the years. As someone else said earlier, there aren’t great and clear individual studies because there isn’t any money in it. For dosing curcumin, you can try juicing a quarter inch of turmeric root a day and starting there, I have seen that knock out a lot of things within a short number of days

Best to use ground black pepper when you use turmeric: that increases the bioavailability of the curcumin

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#26

Post by bqmjjx0kac »

boplicity wrote: post #16
consumer451 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to…

> there are no scientific studies If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. "Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here." This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists beca…

> If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies.

This is a thought-terminating cliche. It's entirely possible nobody has studied it yet.

It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets. They want to find additive treatments that keep symptoms at bay.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#27

Post by michaelmrose »

hammock wrote: post #19
voisin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share any of the science you’ve come across that you find compelling based on sample size, effect side, etc? I’d love to know dosages.

It’s more of a meta analysis in my mind of all the different studies and anecdotes I’ve osmoted over the years. As someone else said earlier, there aren’t great and clear individual studies because there isn’t any money in it. For dosing curcumin, you can try juicing a quarter inch of turmeric root a day and starting there, I have seen that knock out a lot of things within a short number of days

That isn't what a meta analysis is. I'm not trying to be cruel but people know all sorts of things that aren't true based on insufficient evidence and weak correlation. I did this thing and got that result is extremely powerful for an individual but without controlling for other factors its hard to know if they are assigning credit to an irrelevant factor or one that was more specific to their situation and not generalizable.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#28

Post by rgrieselhuber »

grugagag wrote: post #9
GoToRO wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why tomatoes and potatoes?

Also let's also keep in mind not all inflammation is bad. As an anecdote, I know someone who had rosacea breakout and ended up eliminating tomatoes in particular from her diet and it seemed to do the trick so there should be something in tomatoes that causes inflammation...

What is an example of good inflammation?

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#29

Post by austinjp »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #28
grugagag wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also let's also keep in mind not all inflammation is bad. As an anecdote, I know someone who had rosacea breakout and ended up eliminating tomatoes in particular from her diet and it seemed to do the trick so there should be something in tomatoes that causes inflammation...

What is an example of good inflammation?

Inflammation is a crucial part of the body's response to tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, and more. In response, the capillaries become more permeable. This allows white blood cells to leave the blood stream and enter the tissues to combat infection and destroy damaged tissue. The inflammatory response is part of a complex set of self-defense and repair mechanisms. Sometimes these go wrong, but without them you'd most certainly be dead.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#30

Post by carlmr »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #28
grugagag wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also let's also keep in mind not all inflammation is bad. As an anecdote, I know someone who had rosacea breakout and ended up eliminating tomatoes in particular from her diet and it seemed to do the trick so there should be something in tomatoes that causes inflammation...

What is an example of good inflammation?

Inflammation is your body increasing blood flow, heat and nutrient supplies somewhere. The usual function is to heal something in a specific place (good inflammation), diet, lack of exercise, environment, and other factors can cause inflammation in many places in the body where it isn't needed. This often leads to issues.
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