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A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

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Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#11

Post by psychphysic »

consumer451 wrote: post #3

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

It's worth drawing a thick distinction between rheumatoid (autoimmune) and osteoarthritis (worn out).

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#12

Post by exmadscientist »

amelius wrote: post #7

Posted this (about externally stimulating the vagus nerve) a while back because it looked interesting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201... I bought the equipment to try this myself (basically a TENS device and some electrodes), but have been too afraid to apply it :/

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of others: it is very possible to kill yourself if you do this wrong. The vagus nerve (or its mirror on the opposite side of your face, I forget, it's been a while since I worked on this and I've never particularly wanted to revisit it) is involved in pacing your heart. Screw it up and you can end up very dead of cardiac arrest.

So be careful trying this stuff at home!

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#13

Post by objetovoador »

consumer451 wrote: post #3

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

IIRC inflammation is linked to endotoxins produced by bacteria in the gut. Apparently curcumin has a good reputation for helping people with inflammatory conditions like that. And it's been proposed that it yields positive benefits by modulating the gut rather than being bioactive (curcumin is famously not bioactive).

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#14

Post by voisin »

exmadscientist wrote: post #12
amelius wrote: post #7

Posted this (about externally stimulating the vagus nerve) a while back because it looked interesting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201... I bought the equipment to try this myself (basically a TENS device and some electrodes), but have been too afraid to apply it :/

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of others: it is very possible to kill yourself if you do this wrong. The vagus nerve (or its mirror on the opposite side of your face, I forget, it's been a while since I worked on this and I've never particularly wanted to revisit it) is involved in pacing your heart. Screw it up and you can end up very dead of cardiac arrest. So be careful trying this stuff at ho…

You can avoid the potential for death by slow exhalations and other breathing techniques that have been shown to stimulate the vagus nerve.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#15

Post by jeremycarter »

exmadscientist wrote: post #12
amelius wrote: post #7

Posted this (about externally stimulating the vagus nerve) a while back because it looked interesting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201... I bought the equipment to try this myself (basically a TENS device and some electrodes), but have been too afraid to apply it :/

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of others: it is very possible to kill yourself if you do this wrong. The vagus nerve (or its mirror on the opposite side of your face, I forget, it's been a while since I worked on this and I've never particularly wanted to revisit it) is involved in pacing your heart. Screw it up and you can end up very dead of cardiac arrest. So be careful trying this stuff at ho…

Important advice. As a person who has PVCs and PACs I would say avoid anything that isn't medical grade and advised by your cardiologist/specialist doctor.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#16

Post by boplicity »

consumer451 wrote: post #6
GoToRO wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why tomatoes and potatoes?

Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to…

> there are no scientific studies

If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies.

Sadly, that's not the world we live in.

"Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here."

This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists because they can't fund the research.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#17

Post by hammock »

objetovoador wrote: post #13
consumer451 wrote: post #3

I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. This was likely due to (at least related to) snowboard straps being too tight around my left ankle. I hobbled every morning for an hour, then a couple hours, then half the day. One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet. The effects were literally life changing.…

IIRC inflammation is linked to endotoxins produced by bacteria in the gut. Apparently curcumin has a good reputation for helping people with inflammatory conditions like that. And it's been proposed that it yields positive benefits by modulating the gut rather than being bioactive (curcumin is famously not bioactive).

You’re being downvoted because it sounds like woo but the people downvoting aren’t up to speed on the latest science.

Nightshades are tolerated by people with healthy guts and there is a smaller set of people with a gut dysfunction that means the solanine (alkaloids) in nightshades causes leaky gut syndrome leading to the inflammation you are talking about.

Curcumin (turmeric) does alleviate this inflammation pretty powerfully, at least on a temporary basis

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#18

Post by voisin »

hammock wrote: post #17
objetovoador wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC inflammation is linked to endotoxins produced by bacteria in the gut. Apparently curcumin has a good reputation for helping people with inflammatory conditions like that. And it's been proposed that it yields positive benefits by modulating the gut rather than being bioactive (curcumin is famously not bioactive).

You’re being downvoted because it sounds like woo but the people downvoting aren’t up to speed on the latest science. Nightshades are tolerated by people with healthy guts and there is a smaller set of people with a gut dysfunction that means the solanine (alkaloids) in nightshades causes leaky gut syndrome leading to the inflammation you are talking about. Curcumin (turmeric) does alleviate this inflammation pretty…

Can you share any of the science you’ve come across that you find compelling based on sample size, effect side, etc? I’d love to know dosages.

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#19

Post by hammock »

voisin wrote: post #18
hammock wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being downvoted because it sounds like woo but the people downvoting aren’t up to speed on the latest science. Nightshades are tolerated by people with healthy guts and there is a smaller set of people with a gut dysfunction that means the solanine (alkaloids) in nightshades causes leaky gut syndrome leading to the inflammation you are talking about. Curcumin (turmeric) does alleviate this inflammation pretty…

Can you share any of the science you’ve come across that you find compelling based on sample size, effect side, etc? I’d love to know dosages.

It’s more of a meta analysis in my mind of all the different studies and anecdotes I’ve osmoted over the years. As someone else said earlier, there aren’t great and clear individual studies because there isn’t any money in it.

For dosing curcumin, you can try juicing a quarter inch of turmeric root a day and starting there, I have seen that knock out a lot of things within a short number of days

Re: A new treatment for arthritis: Vagus-nerve stimulation

#20

Post by esperent »

boplicity wrote: post #16
consumer451 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to…

> there are no scientific studies If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. "Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here." This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists beca…

This oft-repeated view is frustrating, because a huge number of studies on exactly this kind of thing are done.

Should there be more? Of course! But the money has to come from somewhere. For a study on potatoes and inflammation it has to come from the taxpayer or a non-profit institute. For a study on a new drug that has a potential to make a huge profit, of course it's much easier to find someone besides those to fund it. There are many problems with the modern medical system but I don't think this aspect is totally broken, definitely not to the degree that nay sayers would have you believe.

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