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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

argusleader.com

321–330 of 405 posts

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone doesn’t have the money to stock pile some food and fuel do you think they can afford to move?

Bus fare, then a homeless shelter until you find work in your new city?

Where do you want them to go? Rapid? Chadron? Scottsbluff? These aren't places with a ton of resources either. It's not like they can just pick up and go be homeless somewhere with good services at the cost of bus fare.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snow drifts can go 20 feet or higher with no place to shovel the snow to

Could they dig or melt a tunnel to the wood? If the snow were melted and then refroze as ice at the bottom of the tunnel, one could then slid the wood back to the tunnel entrance... Hardship breeds creativity. Necessity is the mother of invention (except under excessive government intervention, which may be at the root of reservation problems). Maybe if we could calculate the present day market value of all the land…

How much experience do you have in -30F with meters of accumulated snow? How much experience do you have digging tunnels? Because your comment reads like a literal Loony Toons episode, and I've never experienced below -10F or more than a meter of snow.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#323

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

They cannot afford to stockpile fuel. I listen to a podcast by a man who grew up on that reservation. While he was back visiting his grandmother, a propane truck was filling her tank. He told the driver, "Whoa! Stop! We can't afford that much!" The driver told him, "Don't worry, it's free. Venezuela is paying to fill everyone's tank." Those propane tanks are mostly empty unless Venezuela is paying (before Venezuelan…

Regarding the Venezuelan comment: In 2009 the country was also entering economic turmoil, and it never recovered.

I couldn't find anything in English, but this wikipedia page also mentions that propane gas has been in shortage since 2014 domestically for Venezuelans (years before the first sanctions were established): https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escasez_de_combustible_en_Ve....

PDVSA (government company responsible for gas and fuel extraction and processing) has been mismanaged for more than 20 years, the "free" propane was never going to last, and it was extensively used to gain political allies while it was given away.

For those interested, there was a national strike in PDVSA against Hugo Chavez in 2003 that IMHO started the company demise, they fired pretty much anyone who knew how to run it: https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paro_general_en_Venezuela_de...

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were serfs, only a rung or two above chattel slaves on the ladder of human condition. 50 years ago a lot of their descendants in the Eastern Bloc countries were probably still in that condition or in the USSR factory worker equivalent.

Lol you should learn a bit about the history of these countries. 50 years ago was the seventies. While not as confortable as in the west, its was far to be at the level of serfs.

The original quoted statement in GP is a pretty common thing I have seen in younger people in now-prosperous former-communist central/eastern European countries. Minorities being subject to institutional racism in the form of apartheid, redlining and such is completely handwaved away and countered with "we had it bad under communism, but we recovered so why can't they". There are thankfully a growing number who don't think like this, but many simply cannot be convinced and will dismiss your explanations as excuse-making, or try-hard "woke"-ness. Hell, I've even encountered guys here insisting that because they're so non-racist they can use the n-word.

I think that many just don't know how widespread, deeply ingrained and recent much of this was - they think there was slavery, a bit of racism hanging around and then (in the USA at least) the civil rights act sorted things out and made everything equal. And that's really similar in nature to the comment you replied to - people have picked up a simplified and wrong version of history of Warsaw Pact countries and they're just a bit ignorant of the truth.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#325
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were studies 10-20 years ago predicting that global warming will bring with it completely unpredictable weather and harsher extremes in both directions.

Do any governments or institutions have a live(ish) updating model of "what would happen" if trends continue? People reference studies all the time but what's the currently accepted model/outcome in the scientific community? I remember hearing that melting of the ice caps will stop current flows in the ocean and bring about an ice age. Is that actually a thing or just fake news?

Is a real concern. Half of Europe is "kissed" by tropical seawater running from the Gulf of Mexico towards Russia. This hot water creates a warmer than expected climate in the coastal areas. Portugal, UK, Denmark, Norway... all is warmer that it should be. If this current stops flowing or is weakened things will suck real fast.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#326

[flagged]

Do they have opportunities to try for tho? There’s a big difference between arriving poor in NYC and being poor on a reservation. I’ve heard some academic work about how the lack of private property is fucking up res life. Private property is a key stone in the western standard of living and yet the reservations don’t allow it to the same extent. So taking away the assistance without also changing the fundamentals of the game might not help.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#327

For some context from someone who's been on that Res, its population is highly vulnerable with no margin for mishaps. It's a place of generational, crushing poverty, crime, illness, genetic-exacerbated substance abuse, broad lack of economic opportunity, cultural isolation, and federal disinvestment. Free federal healthcare is available, but only at an IHS hospital in Rapid City 1.5 hours away in good weather: it's a…

> genetic-exacerbated substance abuse Could you expand on this a bit? Not a concept I am familiar with

There are definitely some social/environmental factors but there's enough anecdotal smoke around a genetic predisposition in some populations that the search for fire and causation is underway.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9603607/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30852706/

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#328
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evo-bio story of alcohol is confusing though, since fermentation has been present in East Asia as long as anywhere, and there's a large part of the population there that has the alcohol flush reaction. You could tell the story as like, alcohol puts pressure on a population to evolve better responses, and with enough time the flush evolves and that helps limit drinking. But that's pretty just-so.

Yeah, I'm not saying that this is actually true, only that it's not absurd on its face. As I understand it (and I am absolutely not an expert here) North American indigenous populations separated from Asians at the end of the ice age, i.e. ~10,000 years ago, and since then had no exposure to alcohol. That seems like plenty of time for genetic predisposition to alcohol tolerance to be reduced. So it's possible and wor…

This is simply not true. Indigenous peoples of mesoamerica have drunk fermented maize beverages for as long as maize has been cultivated. Tejuino is still a quite popular drink in Mexico.

Arguably what has changed is the ABV of such beverages. Post-industrial alcohol percentages are way higher than what precolonial mesoamericans, ancient Greeks, and vikings we're drinking

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in. Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

I grew up in North Dakota, and the place in this news story is in South Dakota. I knew plenty of folks in rural areas with enough resources for weeks, not days. Running water might be the exception, but many farmers I know had well water.

Running on a well only gets you so far in the running water game when the power goes out.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snow drifts can go 20 feet or higher with no place to shovel the snow to

Could they dig or melt a tunnel to the wood? If the snow were melted and then refroze as ice at the bottom of the tunnel, one could then slid the wood back to the tunnel entrance... Hardship breeds creativity. Necessity is the mother of invention (except under excessive government intervention, which may be at the root of reservation problems). Maybe if we could calculate the present day market value of all the land…

Sounds like bad idea. But assuming you have no choice and need to leave your house you still need to put the snow somewhere that you are digging out. Are you going to fill up your house with it?
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