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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

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Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#11

Post by llamaimperative »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #7

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency.

Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at their 100% intentional and designed cultural death spiral.

Not to say that indigenous life was some suffering-free utopia, but it’s worth remembering their plight is not some emergent accident.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#12

Post by samwillis »

__jambo wrote: post #4
eternityforest wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only so many you can put on at once, and they're one of the cheaper things people own these days.

You can still use them for insulation.. I doubt polyester or cotton would burn very long.

Insulation doesn't provide warmth, it only reduces the rate of heat loss. If it's already so cold you are looking for things in your home to burn for heat, using clothes to insulate it (rather than burn them) isn't going to help.

But that's not the point, the dire situation with little support is the point.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#13

Post by joemazerino »

llamaimperative wrote: post #11
kwhitefoot wrote: post #7

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

A nice cop out. Are you saying those on the reserves are generationally crippled beyond reproach? Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why?

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#15

Post by zdragnar »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #7

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in.

Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#16

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

llamaimperative wrote: post #11
kwhitefoot wrote: post #7

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? It's a real big mystery isn't it.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#17

Post by ethanbond »

joemazerino wrote: post #13
llamaimperative wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

A nice cop out. Are you saying those on the reserves are generationally crippled beyond reproach? Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why?

Hmmm, nope? I’m saying that these particular people had very particular things done to them intended to yield exactly these particular outcomes.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#18

Post by pigsty »

PM_me_your_math wrote: post #10
tw98521358 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they would burn terribly, clog your chimney, and are more effective when worn.

It just seems to me that they would be more effective if worn. Even if they don't fit, cut them up and stitch up gloves and cover-ups.

I’m not asking this to be condescending, but have you ever felt cold?

My hands lose all dexterity entirely in winter. With sufficiently cold weather my hands are either cold, stiff, and in pain, or I’m wearing gloves that are too bulky to be useful for anything other than crudely gripping large objects or swatting things away. These people are experiencing cold beyond what I’ve ever experienced, so I can’t even begin to imagine how much worse it is.

If people are burning things for warmth, they are absolutely not going to be holding a needle.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#20

Post by zdragnar »

joemazerino wrote: post #13
llamaimperative wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

A nice cop out. Are you saying those on the reserves are generationally crippled beyond reproach? Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why?

Even though it's not technically wrong, but I also don't see how viewing a people (or worse, viewing yourself) as a perpetual victim is in any way useful. There's no rewriting the past. Saying "I'll never amount to anything because of what happened 50, 100, 200 years ago" denies your agency, and thus a fundamental aspect of your humanity.

Some people seem to think that the bigotry of low expectations is "social justice".

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