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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

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Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#121

Post by llamaimperative »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #60
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? It's a real big mystery isn't it.

>Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? This sounds very much like "racism of low expectations". "These people" are just as self-sufficient as any other group of modern people of similar socioeconomic background. It's been 100+ years since they were mistreated in any serious fashion. I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were se…

Or what you're comparing is a largely successful genocide (American natives) to either a non-genocide (yeah history was mostly poverty-stricken) or unsuccessful genocides (various groups in Europe).

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#122

Post by brookst »

survirtual wrote: post #59
zdragnar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in. Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

Most people in rural areas have some kind of food store with canned goods. With things like Soylent and Huel, those can also be used. I had 6 months of Soylent back in the day. 2 bags of Huel can last about 6 days and fits in a small bag — it is one of my hacks for backpacking. If you haven’t already, I recommend having a supply of canned beans, canned tuna, canned meats to preference, canned sardines, bulk rice (you…

> No one in the US, for instance, has any excuse because it is all very very affordable

As another comment pointed out, median income in Pine Ridge is $4k per year.

I don’t think really any of your advice is compatible with that income level.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#123

Post by Scoundreller »

astura wrote: post #91
maria2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few places use electricity for heat. It’s super inefficient unless you use a heat pump, and residential heat pumps typically don’t work too far below freezing.

Very few? Maybe for single family homes, but electric heat is very common in apartments - Every apartment I've ever lived in had electric baseboard heaters. Apparently it's #2 is the US with 37% of homes. https://www.climatecentral.org/news/your-heating-fuel-depend... Now that I live in a single family house I use oil to heat the house - but the boiler requires electricity.

37% makes sense. When you live in a moderate climate and minimally need heating, low capex and high opex makes sense.

Too bad so many air conditioners don’t have reversing valves. One day I want to install a window-shaker “the wrong way” and see how well it works as a heater.

As an alternative, one could put water containers in their freezer and throw the ice outside as it freezes as a rudimentary sneakernet liquid solid phase change heat pump.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#124

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

Klathmon wrote: post #90
nottorp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the winter in that area normally ? Because i've lived my first ~16 years of life in a home heated with firewood (and coal but it's irellevant now) and by the end of september all the fuel needed for 3 months of winter was neatly piled up within easy reach of the house. All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. Why would you need something motorized to get to your firewood? Doe…

>All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. According to the article some of the areas are getting 30 inches of snow and ice! With drifts easily doubling that, I could see how 20 meters could quickly become near impossible to clear by hand, especially while it's still coming down.

Exactly. Nobody is going to be able to shovel that out by hand in that extreme cold. It was -30 with the wind here a couple days ago and it took my forever to shovel out the driveway because I had to frequently stop and go back inside to warm up. And that was just a small driveway with a few inches.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#125

Post by plorg »

Klathmon wrote: post #90
nottorp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the winter in that area normally ? Because i've lived my first ~16 years of life in a home heated with firewood (and coal but it's irellevant now) and by the end of september all the fuel needed for 3 months of winter was neatly piled up within easy reach of the house. All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. Why would you need something motorized to get to your firewood? Doe…

>All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. According to the article some of the areas are getting 30 inches of snow and ice! With drifts easily doubling that, I could see how 20 meters could quickly become near impossible to clear by hand, especially while it's still coming down.

The article mentions drifts as tall as houses. Even if you could get a shovel or snowblower under that, where do you put the snow? That's a ton of work!

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#126

Post by kranke155 »

nottorp wrote: post #57
zdragnar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in. Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

How's the winter in that area normally ? Because i've lived my first ~16 years of life in a home heated with firewood (and coal but it's irellevant now) and by the end of september all the fuel needed for 3 months of winter was neatly piled up within easy reach of the house. All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. Why would you need something motorized to get to your firewood? Doe…

This comment is peak HN contrarianism.

“How come they didn’t prepare better for a brutal winter”

Is the new “Dropbox will never work”

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#127

Post by eternalban »

neither_color wrote: post #88
eternalban wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly wonder if the native Americans were (destined to be) screwed even before Europeans set foot in Americas. They were behind a formidable technology curve and I truly wonder would they have fared better if Japanese or Russian (or possibly even Chinese) colonists (the closest geographic candidate colonists) showed up. Consider it as a thought experiment - something that's been popping in my head lately: under…

The Russians did explore Alaska and interact with natives, but all they did was set up some missionary and trade posts. China explored Africa and then became isolationist. Japan was always isolationist until forced to open up by the US.

Russians had to pass through the Caucausus and Steppes before they reached Alaska.

https://www.international.ucla.edu/apc/centralasia/article/1...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuban_Nogai_Uprising

https://fountainmagazine.com/1993/issue-2-april-june-1993/th...

(The Chinese are in the clear imo, so I parenthesized them.)

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#128

Post by toomuchtodo »

LinuxBender wrote: post #119
barney54 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who live on Indian Reservations are frequently really, really poor and likely couldn’t afford to stock up with that much wood beforehand.

You've given me something to go do. I've never visited the reservation near me. [1] If they are unaware of the wood cutting permits [2] I will show them. [1] - https://windriver.org/destinations/wind-river-indian-reserva... [2] - https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbr/passes-permits/forestprod...

Consider reaching out to your local congressional reps to get some appropriation done where reservation folks are contacted to inform them of their right to the resources and automatically provide the wood cutting permits if done for personal/tribal use. Happy to provide assistance.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#129

Post by Scoundreller »

starkd wrote: post #86
epistasis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy will be far cheaper when we switch to a fossil fuel free grid, because the newer technologies are cheaper, and unlike fossil fuels they are on a decreasing cost tech curve. So the sooner we build out the tech, the sooner prices fall.

During the winter, and in storms like this, solar and wind is almost nil. Upstate NY gets very cold. And they are mandating people transition away from oil or gas into using heat pumps. Heat pumps are next to worthless in subzero weather. Oh, and they are also trying to phase out nuclear.

I think the ultimate combo will be air source heat pumps and pellet stoves.

Pellet stoves should keep the insurance companies happy. Semi-renewable fuel. Semi-automated operation with minimal fire risk.

Not much more expensive than nat gas, much cheaper than oil and propane, and most importantly: no nat gas network/connection/account/delivery charge.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#130

Post by Aeolun »

brookst wrote: post #111
jrochkind1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the details, but they are very very poor (Pine Ridge is often calculated to have the highest unemployment and lowest per capita income in the entire country; life expectancy is ~50 years), and I'm not sure how forrested the land is, it's mostly grassland/prairie. The OP article suggested that many people ordinarily use propane heat, which normally can be delivered just fine. I don't know enough to say wh…

Thank you for the context. It’s a little cringey to read all of the comparatively wealthy and privileged comments that boil down to “why didn’t they just spend lots of money on equipment and supplies.”

Another question is why they all still live there?
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