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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

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Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#81

Post by spanktheuser »

zdragnar wrote: post #20
joemazerino wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice cop out. Are you saying those on the reserves are generationally crippled beyond reproach? Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why?

Even though it's not technically wrong, but I also don't see how viewing a people (or worse, viewing yourself) as a perpetual victim is in any way useful. There's no rewriting the past. Saying "I'll never amount to anything because of what happened 50, 100, 200 years ago" denies your agency, and thus a fundamental aspect of your humanity. Some people seem to think that the bigotry of low expectations is "social justi…

The trapped individuals are living are living in a location where these sorts of conditions are extreme. Prior to climate change they may have been unthinkable.

People with limited resources don't devote them to mitigating once in a lifetime risks. Their everyday life is constrained: buy a more reliable car vs. save for a child's education. Eat healthier food vs. visit the doctor.

These Native Americans live in a vulnerable location that provides little land-based wealth, isolates them from population centers & thus opportunity, and exposes them to environmental threat.

If you can't see how that impacts their opportunity to "amount to anything," I suggest relocating. Become their neighbors and report back in 10 years whether you think this had any deleterious impact on what your career has amounted to.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#83

Post by Spooky23 »

chasd00 wrote: post #65
kevingadd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why? The person you're replying to explained why: We did it to them on purpose to wipe them out.

> We did it to them on purpose to wipe them out. "we"? I wouldn't be so presumptuous.

You did not. The society that you are a part of did systematically disassemble their society and slaughter any resistance.

So “we” got our trains, oil and highways, and turned the Great Plains into one of the great breadbaskets of the world, at least for awhile. Unfortunately the depletion of the aquifers will leave those same plains a desert from an agricultural perspective in many of our lifetimes. Maybe when that land is worthless to society again the Sioux will get it back.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#84

Post by zdragnar »

pigsty wrote: post #48
zdragnar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though it's not technically wrong, but I also don't see how viewing a people (or worse, viewing yourself) as a perpetual victim is in any way useful. There's no rewriting the past. Saying "I'll never amount to anything because of what happened 50, 100, 200 years ago" denies your agency, and thus a fundamental aspect of your humanity. Some people seem to think that the bigotry of low expectations is "social justi…

Put someone in a village 100 miles from the nearest town, deny them the basic infrastructure you provide for everyone else, deny them proper education, skimp on government job programs provided to other struggling towns that would eventually lead to wealth flowing in and free enterprise, and let this wealth divide grow for decades and you’ll see you’ve successfully made a hole to trap people in. It’s not bigotry. Eve…

The point isn't "are they poor?" or "why are they poor?" but "how do you lift a community out of poverty?".

There are many poor communities across the country, in all races and creeds. The past can't be rewritten- focusing on "you are poor because X happened in the past" is just telling someone there is no reason for hope.

The way out involves both external and internal forces; external in the sense of support for development of infrastructure and economic activity, internal in the sense of a willingness and belief of capability of change. Many tribes who have successful casinos don't see significant improvements depending on their payout structure, because simply giving money to people with no financial literacy is a recipe for loss.

This is true for all communities facing poverty.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#85

Post by xyzelement »

vitaflo wrote: post #67
maria2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few places use electricity for heat. It’s super inefficient unless you use a heat pump, and residential heat pumps typically don’t work too far below freezing.

Most furnaces require electricity to run even if the heat isn’t generated by electricity.

Exactly

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#86

Post by starkd »

epistasis wrote: post #41
gadders wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net zero will make this more common, sadly, either through energy insecurity or people being unable to afford to heat their homes.

Energy will be far cheaper when we switch to a fossil fuel free grid, because the newer technologies are cheaper, and unlike fossil fuels they are on a decreasing cost tech curve. So the sooner we build out the tech, the sooner prices fall.

During the winter, and in storms like this, solar and wind is almost nil. Upstate NY gets very cold. And they are mandating people transition away from oil or gas into using heat pumps. Heat pumps are next to worthless in subzero weather. Oh, and they are also trying to phase out nuclear.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#87

Post by LinuxBender »

c-fe wrote: post #77
zdragnar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in. Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

> I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers. I disagree. Or, at least where I live (densely populated europe), nearly everyone with their own house has at lease one (small) fireplace with some wood stored outside, typically enough for at least a month (otherwhise, do you go shopping wood every week?). Food-wise I agree that 8 days ma…

That is my take as well. Everyone around me keeps at least 1 cord of wood [1] or more. It can get cold here and people are expected to be self sufficient. The less fortunate people instead of buying wood will get a permit from the state to chop wood from a specified area but then they have to haul/cut/dry/season the wood themselves usually borrowing a neighbors trailer. People here are friendly and share tools.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cord_(unit)

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#88

Post by neither_color »

eternalban wrote: post #62
llamaimperative wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

I honestly wonder if the native Americans were (destined to be) screwed even before Europeans set foot in Americas. They were behind a formidable technology curve and I truly wonder would they have fared better if Japanese or Russian (or possibly even Chinese) colonists (the closest geographic candidate colonists) showed up. Consider it as a thought experiment - something that's been popping in my head lately: under…

The Russians did explore Alaska and interact with natives, but all they did was set up some missionary and trade posts. China explored Africa and then became isolationist. Japan was always isolationist until forced to open up by the US.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#89

Post by xyzelement »

ilyt wrote: post #80
glogla wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, the way fireplaces work is that the fire heats up some kind of heavy construction (cast iron, brick, etc) and that then radiates heat. Not every fireplace is built that way - some of them are decorative and will actually make you colder. Quite a few people found out in not a nice way last time Texas has winter storm.

Yeah if you want to rely on it as heat source you should probably get something modern that doesn't waste exhaust heat and doesn't suck the air out of the room getting more cold air in. Not just "a hole in a roof above a fire".

I am the original poster. As I said in my post, the fireplace is mainly decorative and we are NOT relying on it for heat. However it is our plan B/C if shit hits the fan, in which case huddling the family in front of the radiant fire is a much preferable alternative to dying of cold, efficiency aside.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#90

Post by Klathmon »

nottorp wrote: post #57
zdragnar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in. Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

How's the winter in that area normally ? Because i've lived my first ~16 years of life in a home heated with firewood (and coal but it's irellevant now) and by the end of september all the fuel needed for 3 months of winter was neatly piled up within easy reach of the house. All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. Why would you need something motorized to get to your firewood? Doe…

>All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow.

According to the article some of the areas are getting 30 inches of snow and ice!

With drifts easily doubling that, I could see how 20 meters could quickly become near impossible to clear by hand, especially while it's still coming down.

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