The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter • Hacker News Board

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#231

Post by nicoburns » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:00 AM UTC

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #68

Enginerrrd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the biggest thing EV proponents seem to miss is that you don't need to force it to be 100% for everyone. Confine any mandates to urban centers where it makes sense, you can get buy in from everyone and solve 95% of the problem. At that point there will be lower hanging fruits than the last 5% or w/e.

Chargers are a problem for apartments in urban centers though.

People in apartments must be parking their cars somewhere. You just need to put chargers wherever people are already parking their cars.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#232

Post by EdwardDiego » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:01 AM UTC

isityouyesitsme wrote: post #124

jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

OK, 10 years behind EV. It makes sense that it is where it is. Please point out anywhere where anyone says the accomplishments are not remarkable on their own, if you are not comparing them to the thing with 100 years infra behind it. Now compare that to the seemingly endless number of evangelists who think that 10 years from now is a good time to impose a mandate to kill all new ICE vehicle manufacturing, in spite o…

Where does Person B live? In a hut in Siberia?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#233

Post by doubled112 » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:01 AM UTC

Schnitz wrote: post #162

akmarinov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2035 US is 2022 Europe, if your garage has power - you have 220v

How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I bet a lot of homes have either a sub-panel (and thus could add 220V very easily) or a laundry (dryer socket, 220V).

I'm in Canada in a house built in 2012. Attached garage - my living room is above it.

The breaker panel is in the garage so it'd be easy to add, but my only 220V devices, the dryer and stove (along with their outlets), are inside the house.

I've never heard of a dryer in the garage before. It isn't heated, and in winter months, it's cold enough that snow doesn't melt. Would that have an effect on drying my clothes?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#234

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:01 AM UTC

pastage wrote: post #156

scott_siskind wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is very noticeable on a bicycle at high speeds Huh? I've been cycling for 15 years, many of those years doing 15k km a year, all year round. Mountain biking on mountains at -15C, down to urban cycling in 38-40C scorching summer heat. I've never noticed speed, effort, stamina changing with temperature as you suggest. And I've done lots of road cycling at constant 35-40km/h, descents of up to 70+km/h.

I am not really contradicting you here. Just want clarification from GP. My reaction was Huh? As well. With N=15 years of gps data and 40-70 of those days per year below zero very few below -10°C. I can say that I ride slower on cold days on avarage. I am not fit and do not track that at all. I can barely keep my avarage above 25km/h in city traffic for 15km, very few conflict points maybe twenty but not comparable t…

More wind chill? More weight by thicker clothing?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#235

Post by extrapickles » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:03 AM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #179

cwalv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

I'm curious, is 220V (or 230V) more than twice as fast/twice as good as 110V? The discussion here makes it sound like it. All I know is that you'll need higher amperage with lower voltage, but it can compensate proportionally. I guess heat losses and other problems are significant, if it's a problem at 110V?

It’s more than twice as losses are lower boosting 220v to the 400v or 800v the pack actually needs.

As an example, a charger in some EVs is 87% efficient when charging from 120v and the same charger is 94% efficient when charging from 240v.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#236

Post by josephcsible » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:04 AM UTC

xyst wrote: post #207

Yet another reason why EVs won’t save us from the inefficiencies of car centric transportation. Americans, can we stop this failed experiment and let’s (re)build our cities with public transportation and alternative forms of transportation (ie, biking, walking, micro-mobility). Return the spaces occupied by parking lots, parking garages and use that space to house people. End these implied subsidies on “car housing”.…

I like living in suburbs better than cities, so I choose to live in a suburb, but I don't try to keep other people from being able to live in cities. You like cities and not suburbs. Why can't you be content to just live in a city yourself? Why do you need to make it your mission to destroy my neighborhood?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#237

Post by john-radio » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:06 AM UTC

pandaman wrote: post #208

samwillis wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are not in North America. Most of the rest of the world have a base voltage of, and all domestic outlets are 220-240.

In the US "220V" refers to a high current outlet normally, in a country where household outlets are 220V, you still need a high current outlet and, for safety reasons, most outlets are not high current, just like in the US.

Wait, this is terribly confusing. Why would "220 volts" not refer to a completely objective measurement of current?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#238

Post by acdha » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:07 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #236

xyst wrote: post #207

Yet another reason why EVs won’t save us from the inefficiencies of car centric transportation. Americans, can we stop this failed experiment and let’s (re)build our cities with public transportation and alternative forms of transportation (ie, biking, walking, micro-mobility). Return the spaces occupied by parking lots, parking garages and use that space to house people. End these implied subsidies on “car housing”.…

I like living in suburbs better than cities, so I choose to live in a suburb, but I don't try to keep other people from being able to live in cities. You like cities and not suburbs. Why can't you be content to just live in a city yourself? Why do you need to make it your mission to destroy my neighborhood?

Are they trying to destroy your neighborhood or simply stop subsidizing it? Suburban living costs more and a lot of those costs are paid by the cities they’re near but don’t contribute much to economically.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#239

Post by kergonath » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:08 AM UTC

d_watt wrote: post #19

Anecdotally last winter, had a Model Y up in maine for a trip home. I arrived at a backwoods house with ~60 miles left. It was around 10 farenheit the next day when I hooked up a 110 volt line to the car. Over the next 30 minutes the mileage dropped to 55 as it took more energy to heat the battery than the line could deliver. I unhooked it and planned to drive 20 miles to the nearest charger, but after 1 mile of trav…

It could have been much worse. A battery that froze solid can develop some interesting issues when used after it thawed, such as thermal run-away (or interesting exothermic episodes, as we call it, but funnier to watch in a reinforced calorimeter than in your driveway), or short-circuits (lots of smoke if you are lucky, otherwise a fireball). Batteries have operating range for a reason, and that operating range is exceeded routinely in winter and summer, even in nominally temperate regions.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#240

Post by acdha » Sun, Dec 25, 2022, 2:09 AM UTC

mr_toad wrote: post #218

xyst wrote: post #207

Yet another reason why EVs won’t save us from the inefficiencies of car centric transportation. Americans, can we stop this failed experiment and let’s (re)build our cities with public transportation and alternative forms of transportation (ie, biking, walking, micro-mobility). Return the spaces occupied by parking lots, parking garages and use that space to house people. End these implied subsidies on “car housing”.…

Even if we got rid of all private passenger vehicles we’d still need some small commercial vehicles and they’d have the same technical issues.

Kind of. Any problem is easier with a much smaller number and commercial vehicles are more likely to be stored in places where they have power available.