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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#161

Post by jillesvangurp »

Interesting to read some real world reports on how modern EV owners are coping with the extreme cold weather. Judging from various comments here it seems mostly fine albeit with a bit of range reduction.

I don't think this is very surprising. This is not the first winter for many EV manufacturers, or owners. And of course EVs are pretty popular far into the arctic circle. E.g. there are super chargers in Northern Norway, people use them throughout the year, and it seems fine there.

I think at this point there are very few surprises for manufacturers and they are pretty well aware how their vehicles perform under different conditions.

I'd be interested to know in how those shiny new F 150s are holding up providing power to people who are in areas with power outages. It seems that these are exactly the type of conditions that justify owning such a vehicle. Presumably, Ford did a lot of testing in cold conditions to make sure they work fine there.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#162

Post by Schnitz »

akmarinov wrote: post #138
cwalv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

2035 US is 2022 Europe, if your garage has power - you have 220v

How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I bet a lot of homes have either a sub-panel (and thus could add 220V very easily) or a laundry (dryer socket, 220V).

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#163

Post by Gordonjcp »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #98
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in place that routinely goes below freezing in winter. I’ve never noticed gas mileage change because of temperature. I would definitely notice a difference of 8 MPG. Where do you get that info? Is it personal experience? If so, where do you live?

Cold air is denser. Pushing it out of the way saps more energy and drops the effective work done. You're oblivious to it because a motor vehicle has so much available power on tap. It is very noticeable on a bicycle at high speeds. Conversely. Sailboats get more efficient in cold temperatures because more energy is imparted on the sail.

> Cold air is denser. Pushing it out of the way saps more energy and drops the effective work done.

That makes absolutely no difference at all.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#164

Post by nicoburns »

akmarinov wrote: post #138
cwalv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

2035 US is 2022 Europe, if your garage has power - you have 220v

Or indeed 1960s Europe for that matter. I believe most US homes have a ~240v supply, even if they don't have any outlets that allow them to use it.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#165

Post by samwillis »

rtkwe wrote: post #105
MBCook wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was on level one charging (110v). A level two charger, even a slow one, should be able provide enough current to heat the battery and still charge the battery at the same time.

Most of the time if you're not at your own home you'll be on 110V chargers. To get 220V charging at someone else's you're likely either at another EV owners house who's gone through the trouble of installing a 220V port or you're lucky and they have a conveniently placed dryer in the garage you can steal 220V power from.

Unless you are not in North America. Most of the rest of the world have a base voltage of, and all domestic outlets are 220-240.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#166

Post by Gordonjcp »

hristov wrote: post #74
GalenErso wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

With an ICE car, if you park regularly in very cold weather, your car can fail randomly for an obscure reason and it can take a long time to figure it out or you will need a trip to the mechanic. Or you may need a massive and expensive repair. Remember that a lot of people have to spend 10-15 minutes warming up their cars before they drive them in cold weather. I do not want to go into details, better car mechanics t…

> your car can fail randomly for an obscure reason

Your electric car can fail randomly for an obscure reason too, and good luck getting anyone at all that can fix it.

> Remember that a lot of people have to spend 10-15 minutes warming up their cars before they drive them in cold weather.

Only because they're idiots. No-one needs to leave a vehicle for 10 minutes to "warm up", even in the coldest of weather. Drive gently until the temperature gauge is a bit off the end stop, and then drive a bit less gently until it's at its proper operating temperature.

Alternatively, start the engine from stone cold and immediately drive off at full throttle taking it up to 70mph before there's even a sniff of warm air from the heater. This is *still* better for it than letting it sit for a long time to "warm up".

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#167

Post by nickthegreek »

Schnitz wrote: post #162
akmarinov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2035 US is 2022 Europe, if your garage has power - you have 220v

How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I bet a lot of homes have either a sub-panel (and thus could add 220V very easily) or a laundry (dryer socket, 220V).

I think most of us don’t even have garages.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#169

Post by matsemann »

trog wrote: post #149

How does Norway deal with their EV population given its cold weather?

For most day-to-day trips it's absolutely not a problem the periods I've rented an electric car. And even the outdoor public/slow chargers at parking spots work fine in even cold weather.

A bit annoying for longer trips. Typically "going to the cabin" type trips. Normally I wouldn't need to stop, or perhaps stop once. With a Peugeot e208 I had to stop twice, and the charging was a bit slow. Still, only turned a 4 hour trip to a When there was fewer chargers it was more of a problem. Had to time it so that from the last charger you could reach the cabin and back. But later years with longer ranges and chargers everywhere I don't really plan anything. Except when going to Sweden...

The Kia e-soul I've been using lately feels like it holds it charge much better than the e208, so probably even less of a problem.

And never had troubles getting an EV to start during winter. But may be a bit unfair comparison as the ICEs I've had troubles with are all older generations.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#170

Post by NegativeLatency »

jiggawatts wrote: post #115
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

I heard stories about Russians in the red army setting a pan of fuel on fire under the engine block of their trucks to warm them up sufficiently to turn over and start. Apparently some truck models over there have a built-in metal tray for this purpose.

Crews did that while building the Alaska Canada highway too
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