I deliberately call myself anything but engineer, pretentious
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Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
131–140 of 176 posts
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#132I won't dispute that calling yourself a programmer is bad for your career.
But now that nobody is listening, let me tell you my little dirty secret: I can't think of any other occupation label that defines me better. And, it might be silly, but calling myself a programmer makes me really happy.
A few days ago, someone submitted pg's article advising keep your identity small [0], or at least the smallest you can. Being a programmer is part of my minimum set.
But of course, saying the truth about it, like saying the truth about so many things [1], can be very bad for you.
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#133This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you. Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people…
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegut
When I became a dad I started making 'dad' jokes sarcastically. Now I make them and I don't even notice. So yes, beware.
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#134This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you. Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people…
The article finishes with: At the end of the day, your life happiness will not be dominated by your career. Either talk to older people or trust the social scientists who have: family, faith, hobbies, etc etc generally swamp career achievements and money in terms of things which actually produce happiness. Optimize appropriately. Your career is important, and right now it might seem like the most important thing in y…
> The audience for this article is engineering graduates starting a career, not artists searching for meaning.
Totally agree, I understand how it could sound irrelevant or pretentious. There are a couple of reasons why I wrote this comment, and I assure you it’s all in good spirit:
First, some young people who love programming don’t want to play the career came, and there is space for them as well. I read the article as “you must play to get anywhere” (my interpretation). You can do your thing, either alone or at a company, and simply not care.
Secondly, I know many who have more money than they could dream of earlier in their lives, but they’ve readjusted and moved the goalpost, and keep grinding seemingly because of peer pressure and habit alone. Some of them are miserable for no reason.
Third, working in order to play another game that you really like (family, hobbies, travel) is perfectly fine. Many people in my generation think that you must play all games at once, and they get exhausted. But no need – not giving a shit is sometimes the highest virtue.
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#135This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you. Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people…
>> If you have the privilege to choose what game to play, I recommend picking not by the rewards of the game – but based on how you like the rules of the game. It's kinda both though isn't it? Sure we all want to play the game with the "right rules", but at the same time I also care deeply about the rewards - I want time with the family, I don't want to worry about money every night, and so on. But I agree, rules fir…
> It's kinda both though isn't it?
You spotted my intentional hyperbole :) I wanted to draw attention to it because it’s underrated, but you’re totally right that it’s always a compromise.
> Wherever you end up, understand that there are rules.
Absolutely. And not only social, but inherent rules in the domain you’re working. For instance, math research has more discontinuous progress than building crud apps.
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is very good advice, if you want to work in Germany. The general requirement to call oneself an engineer ("Ingenieur") is that a person has successfully completed a technical or scientific course of study at a German university or university of applied science with the duration of at least three years (full-time). Each German state has its own Engineer Law ("Ingenieurgesetz", IngG) for the details, which also in…
Does this mean a physics degree qualifies?
For example the Engineer Law of Baden-Württemberg states in § 1.1:
(1) The professional title "engineer" may be held by anyone who
1. has successfully completed a course of study in a technical or natural science subject with a standard period of study of at least six semesters, corresponding to at least 180 ECTS credits, at a German state or state-recognised higher education institution, whereby this course of study must be predominantly in the fields of mathematics, information technology, natural sciences and technology, ... [1]
[1] Original:
(1) Die Berufsbezeichnung »Ingenieurin« oder »Ingenieur« darf führen, wer
1. ein Studium in einer technischen oder naturwissenschaftlichen Fachrichtung mit einer Regelstudienzeit von mindestens sechs Semestern, was mindestens 180 ECTS-Punkten entspricht, an einer deutschen staatlichen oder staatlich anerkannten Hochschule mit Erfolg abgeschlossen hat, wobei dieses Studium überwiegend von den Bereichen Mathematik, Informatik, Naturwissenschaften und Technik geprägt sein muss, ...
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#137I’m sure this article is right about some stuff, but man if it doesn’t make me sad to read. Software can be so exciting and fun, and this “careerist” perspective really sucks the joy out of it. If you’re looking for something that is kind of the opposite of this article: https://ferd.ca/the-little-printf.html .
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Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#138I’m sure this article is right about some stuff, but man if it doesn’t make me sad to read. Software can be so exciting and fun, and this “careerist” perspective really sucks the joy out of it. If you’re looking for something that is kind of the opposite of this article: https://ferd.ca/the-little-printf.html .
On the flip side, the reason so many musicians get exploited by the recording industry is because music is supposed to be fun. So their agents arrange for fun and keep the money for themselves.
I think it's more that there's a structure of abusive intermediation (that being the recording industry as a whole, not just the agents) that has successfully inserted itself between creator and audience such that it is able to extract it's troll toll, and artists are unable to route around it because the industry act as gatekeepers and without them you won't be able to reach a large audience.
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#139Blah, I’m a programmer and being one has never once been a career hindrance. No one is trying to put me out of a job because of salesforce or whatever. I’m trying to program myself out of a job but haven’t been able to for 20-some years. I doubt I ever could.
Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)
#140The options grant appraisal for startup employees seems very optimistic - 70% it's worth nothing. 25% payout is equivalent to all the backpay you would have gotten if you had worked at a big tech co. instead. 4% life changing money but not the richest person you know. 1% you are the richest person you know.
Was this the generally the way people thought about it back then? I remember seeing fairly pessimistic valuations around 2013 though, and I see it more like 10-15% chance of big tech salary equivalent, and 1-2% for life changing.