Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

kalzumeus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 176 posts

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#41

Post by kache_ »

strict9 wrote: post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

it's not about what language you're using

it's about what you accomplish.

that's in isolation of pretty much everything, even computers in general.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#42

Post by tomxor »

strict9 wrote: post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

> Using some older/unfashionable languages or maintenance-only frameworks indicates a lack of investment or interest in technology. It probably also indicates a lot as far as what your colleagues would be like and how much you'd learn from them.

Not everyone is looking for the same thing. Over interest in new technologies cautions me that a candidate may be more interested in hype than finding suitable technology for a problem, it's a continuum, but sometimes you see a pattern of hit and run, trying new tech and then leaving projects behind (not even them knowing what happened to them, if it turned out to be a good decision long term)... that's not attractive from a business perspective where stability is valued.

At the other end you get people who are not comfortable stepping out of the box they've made for themselves. You want a bit of both, it's good to be interested in new things and even consider them for use in production - but it must be accompanied with a healthy amount of scepticism and keeping your evangelism in check, because technology can be subjective.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#44

Post by SoftTalker »

strict9 wrote: post #38
i_have_an_idea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t get it. The point of the author is that you want to be in the position where a company is hiring you, as a consulting business, to solve a particular problem they’re having. That means having very large freedom in your implementation, as long as the problem is solved. What you’re describing is basically being an employee. When you’re an employee you typically aren’t hired to solve a problem, you’re there to…

OK, but what I quoted was specifically advice on being an employee: >Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go And I'm saying the language/stack absolutely does matter when it comes to advice for new developers.

Note the blog post is from 2011. It mattered less then.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#45

Post by SoftTalker »

mempko wrote: post #43

Don't be ashamed to call yourself a programmer. Alex Stepanov, who created hundreds of billions in value by creating the C++ stl calls himself a programmer.

I call myself a programmer, because it's one word rather than a paragraph, and it's the bulk of what I do.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#46

Post by maverickJ »

It’s all about positioning one’s career where one has max leverage which lead to relative higher career earnings; hopefully converting some of this to cash producing assets.

It’s similar to other advice I have heard such as one’s communication and general peoples skills tends to lead to favourable career success after a certain threshold.

A great article on why one should not depend on technical skills alone is https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/dont-hinge-your-care...

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#47

Post by SoftTalker »

mikewarot wrote: post #2

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

I agree in sentiment. You're fighting a losing battle though. People like inflated, grandiose-sounding titles that make it sound like what they do requires a mysterious rare skill.

We are builders, with some amount of analytical ability and creativity. We aren't much different from pipefitters, blacksmiths, or furniture builders, and we aren't any smarter than those people.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#48

Post by neilv »

> (P.S. You probably don’t want to be first employee for a startup. Be the last co-founder instead.)

Not only for the better equity deal. In an early startup of a handful of people, there's already a power hierarchy and people are still figuring things out.

If a cofounder wants to pull a key decision out of their posterior which they know everyone else would disagree with, or wants a big career-building or fun startup thing to themselves, they still need informed consent of the other cofounders.

This is a time when it might be very convenient for a cofounder to modify their idea of mostly-egalitarian startup team dynamics, to think of employees as, well, only employees. You being cofounder here helps keep everyone honest with themselves and the rest of the company, which can be good for everyone.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#49

Post by klabb3 »

This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you.

Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people share the same values in the first place. Others dislike who they become and either quit or become resentful.

A big pile of money looks like the best thing in the world to a college grad. Playing a game you aren’t passionate about can be a worthwhile compromise, especially if you don’t have much financial safety. But never let anyone else tell you what game to play, that is your choice alone.

If you have the privilege to choose what game to play, I recommend picking not by the rewards of the game – but based on how you like the rules of the game.

Post reply on HN