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Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

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Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#61

Post by SoftTalker »

adalacelove wrote: post #52
SoftTalker wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call myself a programmer, because it's one word rather than a paragraph, and it's the bulk of what I do.

Me too, specially in social settings. It nicely stops the conversation about work.

Trying to decide if you're being ironic.

I find that even saying "I'm a programmer" in social settings triggers my counterparty to frantically start scanning the room for anybody else to talk to.

In social situations when that comes up I usually say something like "I work for " and then immediately try to change the subject.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#62

Post by dinkumthinkum »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #39
strict9 wrote: post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

Right, it really doesn't matter—until you are interviewed by a shortsighted manager in a hurry, which is all too often.

And isn’t it a good thing that that manager helped you realize not to waste your time with that company?

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#64

Post by andsoitis »

strict9 wrote: post #22
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but Facebook had large collection of code written in php(still is?), and they are far from having "lack of investment or interest in technology."

They are definitely the outlier and the version of php that fb uses can barely be called php when they more or less rewrote how it works under the hood. But this isn't a dig at php, just stating chosen languages/frameworks matter a lot. I think it speaks volumes about a company's tech philosophy if they still mainly use php and jquery for web development.

What about if they use Java or C++ or Erlang for production code, rather than, say, Go or Rust?

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#65

Post by dinkumthinkum »

mikewarot wrote: post #2

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

This seems pretty hyperbolic. Are electrical engineeers not engineers since the majority of them don’t get a P.E. Are you seriously that worried about criminal prosecution? That seems like a different kind of problem, if true.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#66

Post by bee_rider »

nsxwolf wrote: post #35
mikewarot wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would simply not use the title anywhere. If I got an interview or offer, I would point out the problem with the job title at that time.

I think people would find that really weird. Potentially "bad culture fit" weird.

Interviews are two way; if it really annoys somebody to be called an engineer when they aren’t licensed or doing what they think of as engineering work, then… I guess it is a legitimate bad culture fit, right? If that’s the hill somebody wants to die on, might as well get it out of the way!

IMO — I’d prefer not to be called engineer but we live in a capitalist world — if someone is willing to pay enough they can call me whatever they want.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#67

Post by dinkumthinkum »

ffssffss wrote: post #9
mikewarot wrote: post #2

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

The criminal liability is in lying specifically about having the PE license, for work that requires it. Nobody is going to prison for calling themselves an "engineer" on their resume when they apply for a job that itself is called "engineer" by the recruiter.

Given that companies like Google have positions for “software engineers” or “engineering departments” and simultaneously hire armies of attorneys, I would have thought this would have come up. *

* Not legal advice or proposed by a practicing attorney of any U.S. state.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#68

Post by waynesonfire »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #6

> Engineers in particular are usually very highly paid Cost Centers, which sets MBA’s optimization antennae to twitching disagree completely with this. I view scientists, engineers, programmers, and system administrators as a part of the profit center because they are intrinsically tied to value creation and value amplification.

> I view...

well, you're not a MBA or a decision maker so your input here is mute. People are the means of production for a technology company and people cost money. This isn't complicated. And make no mistake, great measures are taken to minimize costs.

Whether you label something a profit center or cost center is irrelevant to the authors point. The significance of the conclusion remains true regardless of the label used.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#69

Post by analog31 »

Archelaos wrote: post #30
mikewarot wrote: post #2

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

This is very good advice, if you want to work in Germany. The general requirement to call oneself an engineer ("Ingenieur") is that a person has successfully completed a technical or scientific course of study at a German university or university of applied science with the duration of at least three years (full-time). Each German state has its own Engineer Law ("Ingenieurgesetz", IngG) for the details, which also in…

Does this mean a physics degree qualifies?

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#70

Post by dinkumthinkum »

mikewarot wrote: post #13
nsxwolf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you give that advice when the job titles are all "xyz engineer"?

I would simply not use the title anywhere. If I got an interview or offer, I would point out the problem with the job title at that time.

You would point that out to a serious, billion dollar company that is interviewing your for a software engineer position? Really? Maybe you don’t realize how bad that sounds. That is actually pretty silly; it would be like you claiming to have secret knowledge or some kind of legal training superiority to a companies that employs or otherwise retains the services of an army of top tier attorneys.
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