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Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

kalzumeus.com

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Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#51

Post by jckahn »

klabb3 wrote: post #49

This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you. Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people…

I’m willing to play the game as a survival mechanism. I’m not in tech (professionally) because of passion. I’m in it to survive and solve problems that having money can solve.

I make open source software and give it away for free in my spare time because of passion. The fact that my job and my hobby are very similar is merely incidental.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#52

Post by adalacelove »

SoftTalker wrote: post #45
mempko wrote: post #43

Don't be ashamed to call yourself a programmer. Alex Stepanov, who created hundreds of billions in value by creating the C++ stl calls himself a programmer.

I call myself a programmer, because it's one word rather than a paragraph, and it's the bulk of what I do.

Me too, specially in social settings. It nicely stops the conversation about work.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#53

Post by lucumo »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #34

Oh boy. Ask for forgiveness later may work at a smaller joint, but willfully and knowingly bypassing existing policies can land you in a heap of trouble at a bigger corporate. The boss may be happy, because he is an idiot with no concern other than getting a bonus all the while security of the product ( and possibly the company itself ) is undermined by one coder. And I am saying all this as I am trying to convince m…

> Ask for forgiveness later may work at a smaller joint, but willfully and knowingly bypassing existing policies can land you in a heap of trouble at a bigger corporate.

Interesting. I've found that the bigger the company the more I need to do that. In a small company I can actually discuss things with people and a motivated decision rolls out. In big companies I ran into one of two problems.

1. Many people dare to say no, but few dare say yes. I have seen discussions about spending half a day engineering time kicked up three management layers because it wasn't a pre-approved task. It was obvious to everyone that it needed to be done too.

2. People just not deciding. If you don't keep chasing a decision, nothing will happen.

The political cost of a bad decision grows the higher up it goes. Make a bad decision as a grunt and you get chewed out a bit. As long as you were genuinely trying to help the company, it's nothing you can't get out of with a bit of charm and a willingness to learn. Make a bad decision a bit higher up and people start sharpening their knives. Sometimes it's better to just decide for your manager and give them plausible deniability.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#54

Post by [deleted] »

jckahn wrote: post #51
klabb3 wrote: post #49

This whole article is great advice for playing the career game, or “how to fit in and not get bullied at school”. Note that it comes at a cost, and that cost may or may not be worth it to you. Note also that playing a game for a long time you forget that you are playing a game, and you start incorporating the rules of the game into your mind. Some people are more resistant to this effect than others, and some people…

I’m willing to play the game as a survival mechanism. I’m not in tech (professionally) because of passion. I’m in it to survive and solve problems that having money can solve. I make open source software and give it away for free in my spare time because of passion. The fact that my job and my hobby are very similar is merely incidental.

[deleted]

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#55

Post by Kon-Peki »

> I was once reduced to tears because a minor academic snafu threatened my ability to get a Bachelor of Science with a major in Computer Science, which my advisor told me was more prestigious than a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science.

I'd really like to know more about this distinction

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#56

Post by dang »

The main past threads appear to be:

Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28234937 - Aug 2021 (89 comments)

Don't Call Yourself a Programmer, and Other Career Advice (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303181 - Oct 2019 (307 comments)

Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12548043 - Sept 2016 (147 comments)

Don't call yourself a programmer (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9015160 - Feb 2015 (84 comments)

Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8147008 - Aug 2014 (44 comments)

Dont call yourself a programmer (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4822015 - Nov 2012 (46 comments)

Don't Call Yourself a Programmer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3170766 - Oct 2011 (267 comments)

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#57

Post by vanviegen »

lucumo wrote: post #53
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #34

Oh boy. Ask for forgiveness later may work at a smaller joint, but willfully and knowingly bypassing existing policies can land you in a heap of trouble at a bigger corporate. The boss may be happy, because he is an idiot with no concern other than getting a bonus all the while security of the product ( and possibly the company itself ) is undermined by one coder. And I am saying all this as I am trying to convince m…

> Ask for forgiveness later may work at a smaller joint, but willfully and knowingly bypassing existing policies can land you in a heap of trouble at a bigger corporate. Interesting. I've found that the bigger the company the more I need to do that. In a small company I can actually discuss things with people and a motivated decision rolls out. In big companies I ran into one of two problems. 1. Many people dare to s…

> Sometimes it's better to just decide for your manager and give them plausible deniability.

Exactly! I don't mind saying sorry. And as long as you get the results, it turns out that most people that matter don't really care about all the bogus policies you ignored.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#58

Post by n0tth3dro1ds »

mikewarot wrote: post #2

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

Sour grapes from lower paying engineering disciplines that have been hijacked by certification organizations. I’m a software engineer. I earn triple what you earn as a civil engineer, and I don’t have to pay a certification body for the title. I can also work in any state that I want, and I can move without second thought or recertification. Go cry about it.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#60

Post by dinkumthinkum »

arka2147483647 wrote: post #28
itsmemattchung wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using some older/unfashionable languages or maintenance-only frameworks indicates a lack of investment or interest in technology. Not necessarily. Although many would consider C an older language, it's often the right language for the right job (e.g. network packet processing).

I perceive this as: - There is always a need for low-level programming, and there is not as much development of new languages, abstractions, frameworks, and libraries in the low-level space. Indeed, most of the time you don't want any abstraction, framework or library between you and the low level thing you want to do. - In the high-level programming space, there is a never ending race to climb higher and higher in t…

It could also just be that the population of Web developers is more prone to fads and churning framework after framework passing each off as serious technological innovation when they are typically just re-arrangements based on shifting opinions. So while, in this space, perhaps, “technology is changing all the time” but really it us just feverishly dog-paddling in place.
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