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Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

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Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#31

Post by cultofmetatron »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #6

> Engineers in particular are usually very highly paid Cost Centers, which sets MBA’s optimization antennae to twitching disagree completely with this. I view scientists, engineers, programmers, and system administrators as a part of the profit center because they are intrinsically tied to value creation and value amplification.

> I view scientists, engineers, programmers, and system administrators as a part of the profit center because they are intrinsically tied to value creation and value amplification.

Its a perfectly sensible view. unfortunately not one shared by your typical bean counter. MBAs routinely buy out companies and gut the value creation parts to increase valuation for short term gain before pawing off the hollowed out shell to the next owner. its sick but widespread.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#33

Post by solarmist »

mikewarot wrote: post #2

Don't call yourself an Engineer unless you are licensed to do so. Most states have a professional licensing board to oversee the practice of Engineering. Here's the link to the one in my home state of Indiana.[1] I've been a programmer, system administrator and a machinist. I've never called myself an engineer, and wouldn't want the criminal liability for doing so. I wouldn't call myself a "computer doctor" either fo…

This is utter nonsense. Words always have more than one definition.

Every term that has a legal (or precise subject-specific) definition also has a common-use definition. Engineer is no different, and the law knows and understands this.

This is why the term licensed engineer is a thing.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#34

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

Oh boy. Ask for forgiveness later may work at a smaller joint, but willfully and knowingly bypassing existing policies can land you in a heap of trouble at a bigger corporate. The boss may be happy, because he is an idiot with no concern other than getting a bonus all the while security of the product ( and possibly the company itself ) is undermined by one coder.

And I am saying all this as I am trying to convince my boss that Python may be better suited for some tasks than Excel ( long story, some stuff is kinda locked, but not completely ).

Bottom line is.. some rules exist for a reason. Break those only if you understand why they can be broken ( and you are comfortable with explaining stuff should it fail in your lap ).

Edit: Honestly, that one piece of advice makes me really start to appreciate why some things are the way they are.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#35

Post by nsxwolf »

mikewarot wrote: post #13
nsxwolf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you give that advice when the job titles are all "xyz engineer"?

I would simply not use the title anywhere. If I got an interview or offer, I would point out the problem with the job title at that time.

I think people would find that really weird. Potentially "bad culture fit" weird.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#36

Post by i_have_an_idea »

strict9 wrote: post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

You don’t get it. The point of the author is that you want to be in the position where a company is hiring you, as a consulting business, to solve a particular problem they’re having. That means having very large freedom in your implementation, as long as the problem is solved.

What you’re describing is basically being an employee. When you’re an employee you typically aren’t hired to solve a problem, you’re there to fill a role. To fill the role you will need to fit whatever mold the employer wants, including tech stack.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#37

Post by toomanydoubts »

mikewarot wrote: post #13
nsxwolf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you give that advice when the job titles are all "xyz engineer"?

I would simply not use the title anywhere. If I got an interview or offer, I would point out the problem with the job title at that time.

This is absolute madness. Just accept the game for what it is. If they wanna call software developers "software engineers", what do you have to gain by swimming uphill?

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#38

Post by strict9 »

i_have_an_idea wrote: post #36
strict9 wrote: post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

You don’t get it. The point of the author is that you want to be in the position where a company is hiring you, as a consulting business, to solve a particular problem they’re having. That means having very large freedom in your implementation, as long as the problem is solved. What you’re describing is basically being an employee. When you’re an employee you typically aren’t hired to solve a problem, you’re there to…

OK, but what I quoted was specifically advice on being an employee:

>Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go

And I'm saying the language/stack absolutely does matter when it comes to advice for new developers.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#39

Post by mixmastamyk »

strict9 wrote: post #4

>You are not defined by your chosen software stack: I recently asked via Twitter what young engineers wanted to know about careers. Many asked how to know what programming language or stack to study. It doesn’t matter. There you go. I generally agree with this point and many others in the article but when looking for a position the tech stack of a company you're interviewing with matters a whole lot. Using some older…

Right, it really doesn't matter—until you are interviewed by a shortsighted manager in a hurry, which is all too often.

Re: Don't call yourself a programmer, and other career advice (2011)

#40

Post by LudwigNagasena »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #6

> Engineers in particular are usually very highly paid Cost Centers, which sets MBA’s optimization antennae to twitching disagree completely with this. I view scientists, engineers, programmers, and system administrators as a part of the profit center because they are intrinsically tied to value creation and value amplification.

The whole idea of a “cost centre” is nonsense anyway.
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