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Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

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Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#51

Post by mrguyorama »

barney54 wrote: post #44
micromacrofoot wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ok if solar doesn't work everywhere, even in the places where it’s optimal it’s barely being used right now. There’s a lot of work to be done. Even if we just covered the country’s parking lots with solar awnings we’d be producing huge amounts of power.

The problem with solar awnings is the cost. It's much more cost-effective to install solar on a field or an open area than a parking lot. Parking lot installations much more expensive because of the additional infrastructure needed.

As we phase out gasoline powered vehicles over the next... like forever, we will have less use for ethanol produced from corn syrup, nevermind we should be reducing corn syrup in food production as well. We should be paying midwestern corn farmers to replace their corn fields with solar panels.

People complain about so much when it comes to green energy. "Oh transmission losses will eat into it so we can't transmit it too far", well why can't we fill nevada with stupidly more solar than we need so we don't care about losses.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#52

Post by jcampbell1 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #38
gilbetron wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of areas in the US are great for solar, but for many of the urban areas, it sucks. Solar in and around LA or Denver? Great! Solar in and around Detroit or Chicago? Awful. I brought out an installer and he literally LOLed when he saw my house. Great trees, wonderful yard, compact house, but hardly any location for solar given the amount of sun we get where I live. Not to mention the carbon costs of producing sol…

It’s ok if solar doesn't work everywhere, even in the places where it’s optimal it’s barely being used right now. There’s a lot of work to be done. Even if we just covered the country’s parking lots with solar awnings we’d be producing huge amounts of power.

Ideas such as spend $800k on parking lot shade structures and then attach $200k of solar are inferior compared to buying some pasture land for $4000 and installing $996k of solar panels. Are we trying to solve CO2 emissions or is it more important that you get to see the panels every time you shop at CostCo?

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#53

Post by throwuwu »

lazide wrote: post #12
thehappypm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, cut down a forest or buy ready land. Level the land, prepare drainage, and install racks to hold the films. Why do that when a warehouse roof is ready for solar to be deployed?

Or just put it on the parking lot? The efficiency is so low on these, good luck. Covering a corner of the parking lot with standard panels is going to be cheaper and easier than doing the roof using these.

Covering a parking lot with anything let alone solar panels that require lots of electrical connections is not a simple job. Think of all the supporting posts and beams, footings that will take up space, wind load considerations, etc.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#54

Post by throwuwu »

r_hoods_ghost wrote: post #21
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pierce the supposedly waterproof roof (the entire point of a roof). And mounted at whatever angle the roof is built, instead of an optimal angle. And are in the most difficult place for maintenance and cleaning, so those things will be neglected. And you need to replace the roof? Now what?

You could run cables down the roof and the outside outside of the wall which not particularly rare. Actually that's the case for one of the aerials on my roof. And piercing roofs isn't exactly uncommon. Aircon vents, chimneys, mountings for aerials etc. The thing with something like this is that it doesn't have to be an optimal solution which instantly solves all our problems, which is what a lot of people seem to de…

It’s not the holes for the cables that are the problem. It’s the anchor screws that mount the panels to the roof. If you’ve ever installed shingles on a roof you would know that you have to be careful to cover all of the nail heads with the next row of shingles and preferably use roofing tar as well to get a good seal. The anchor screws for solar are supposed to only go into the rafters below the roofing but anyone can tell you that is hard to do 100% of the time on an existing roof even if you are being meticulous and judging from the installs I’ve seen most solar installers aren’t.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#55

Post by throwuwu »

ilyt wrote: post #27
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pierce the supposedly waterproof roof (the entire point of a roof). And mounted at whatever angle the roof is built, instead of an optimal angle. And are in the most difficult place for maintenance and cleaning, so those things will be neglected. And you need to replace the roof? Now what?

> And are in the most difficult place for maintenance and cleaning, so those things will be neglected. They don't need much service. And it's not like you need a helicopter to get there > And you need to replace the roof? Now what? That's one in 50 years event Like yeah, if you have good amount of space that is otherwise unused go ahead, but realistically someone will want that space for a house or business, not a bu…

50 years? Where, Europe? With tile I’m guessing because in North America most people have asphalt roofs that need to be replaced every 15 to 20.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#56

Post by throwuwu »

r_hoods_ghost wrote: post #20
Someone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, 100g/m² is too low for “simply unroll it on a roof” . A carpet so light will blow away in a storm, worst-case taking (part of) the roof with it (roofs often are fairly weak when pulled upwards or sidewards. That’s why solar panels on roofs sometimes are weighed down: it keeps the net force on the roof more or less downwards, even if the wind exerts an upwards force) What would you use to attach the…

Since it is fabric presumably you could just stick them down the same way you do with a felted roof. I guess you could even incorporate it into a felt roll.

It’ll need to be durable enough to walk on then.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#57

Post by throwuwu »

toss1 wrote: post #26

>>The fabric modules had a power density of 370 watts per kilogram and weighed 0.1 kilogram per square meter. Commercial residential silicon solar panels, by contrast, have a power density of 20 W/kg and weigh 10.7 kg/m2 So, the fabric modules have an areal power density of 37 W/m^2 vs. commercial residential panels at 214 W/m^2. So, fantastic for weight, but on a per-area basis, about 5.8 area units are needed for e…

If they can be rolled and unrolled repeatedly this would be great for RVs since you could use them instead of the canopy material for shade. Fabric covered buildings would be another application if they can be made durable enough.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#58

Post by jcampbell1 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #49
rconti wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is USA government policy actively antagonistic towards this specific technology? Or just doesn't have specific support/incentives for this specific kind of technology? Is there any reason the market doesn't/can't support buying these panels here? Or are there weird tariffs against it? IS there not already a boom in solar PV installation in the USA? It looks like we're far from a watts-per-capita leader (15th in the w…

The Republican party in the united states is so anti-green energy, they removed solar panels from the white house in the 80s, shortly after they were installed, just because they didn't like them. They also blamed wind turbines for the extreme grid failure in Texas last year, and it is a current talking point that "wind and solar can't ever work" and that wind turbines kill so many birds that we can't possibly ever u…

Texas is one of the reddest states yet produces significantly more wind+solar power than liberal California. Government policy is far less important than economic realities. People are self-absorbed and think their political opinions are important. The real world works more like a cowboy hat wearing power company executive saying, "Holy shucks, this solar/wind installation is going to save us more on NatGas than it costs to install. Get 'er done."

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#60

Post by alienalp »

struggle2 wrote: post #5
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

If weight is the issue, well fine. But they deliver (back of the envelope) 37W per square meter. While conventional panels deliver ~200. So any application that's space-limited, these are not a win. And isn't that, every home installation?

In Germany (and I think in the EU) you have a max. weight for cars of about 3.5T (~7716 pounds). You can drive cars that weight more than that but then your speed is limited to (I think 80-100km/h), you have to pay (more) toll and more importantly you have to get a special drivers license in most cases (cost + time). Camper vans usually get very close to that limit. Even if the van has only 2 sleeping spots. Weight i…

For a country like Germany. You will need way more panels to cover at least for semi-cloudy days. I don't think clouds will have much respect about your autonomy.
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