Should it be possible one day to scale up this technology …
I think I’ve seen this one before.
Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
11–20 of 130 posts
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
In that case I suggest installing efficient panels in some large installation somewhere else. Like, a power company solar farm miles from your warehouse. It's such a strange magpie impulse folks have to want solar on their house. Look at my stuff! I'm doing things! From a societal point of view the efficient installation is in bulk, serviceable, unobstructed. A rooftop is comically not these things.
Sure, cut down a forest or buy ready land. Level the land, prepare drainage, and install racks to hold the films. Why do that when a warehouse roof is ready for solar to be deployed?
Or just put it on the parking lot?
The efficiency is so low on these, good luck. Covering a corner of the parking lot with standard panels is going to be cheaper and easier than doing the roof using these.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#13Key item here: “These cells as they are could last one or two years without packaging,” Bulović says. “With packaging, we could extend that to five to 10 years. And that’s plenty.”
As with existing thin film cells, degradation in real-world outdoor conditions is significant and limits usefulness.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
In that case I suggest installing efficient panels in some large installation somewhere else. Like, a power company solar farm miles from your warehouse. It's such a strange magpie impulse folks have to want solar on their house. Look at my stuff! I'm doing things! From a societal point of view the efficient installation is in bulk, serviceable, unobstructed. A rooftop is comically not these things.
The advantage of solar on roofs is that solar doesn't need to be serviced often, and the solar panels actually protect the roof under it and will lower electricity use in the summer by keeping sun off the roof.
The disadvantage being that they add weight to the roof and are a significant source of wind load.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#15If weight is the issue, well fine. But they deliver (back of the envelope) 37W per square meter. While conventional panels deliver ~200. So any application that's space-limited, these are not a win. And isn't that, every home installation?
As they mention in the article though, there are lots of applications that aren't space-limited but are structurally-limited (warehouses) in that they can't support the weight of solar panels without more engineering. I did think it was strange that they obfuscated the W/m^2 statistic by only presenting W/kg and kg/m^2. I suppose focusing on watts per kilogram better aligns with a breakthrough in installations with p…
On the other hand, 100g/m² is too low for “simply unroll it on a roof”. A carpet so light will blow away in a storm, worst-case taking (part of) the roof with it (roofs often are fairly weak when pulled upwards or sidewards. That’s why solar panels on roofs sometimes are weighed down: it keeps the net force on the roof more or less downwards, even if the wind exerts an upwards force)
What would you use to attach these, and what would that weigh?
I see these end up on cars, sailing boats, etc, where I think weight and flexibility matter more, before ending up in high-volume applications.
On the plus side, the article doesn’t mention it, but I would guess recyclability for these would be higher because they don’t glue cells to glass.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Germany (and I think in the EU) you have a max. weight for cars of about 3.5T (~7716 pounds). You can drive cars that weight more than that but then your speed is limited to (I think 80-100km/h), you have to pay (more) toll and more importantly you have to get a special drivers license in most cases (cost + time). Camper vans usually get very close to that limit. Even if the van has only 2 sleeping spots. Weight i…
16 kg on 3500 kg is nothing and you definitely need 200W and not 40W
The limit is 3500 kg, if you’re at 3300 kg stock then you only have 200kg to play with when retrofitting.
Also it’s 200W/m2 but camper roofs are a lot more than 1 square meter so you just cover a larger percentage of the roof with solar.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
The advantage of solar on roofs is that solar doesn't need to be serviced often, and the solar panels actually protect the roof under it and will lower electricity use in the summer by keeping sun off the roof.
The disadvantage being that they add weight to the roof and are a significant source of wind load.
And pierce the supposedly waterproof roof (the entire point of a roof). And mounted at whatever angle the roof is built, instead of an optimal angle. And are in the most difficult place for maintenance and cleaning, so those things will be neglected.
And you need to replace the roof? Now what?
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Germany (and I think in the EU) you have a max. weight for cars of about 3.5T (~7716 pounds). You can drive cars that weight more than that but then your speed is limited to (I think 80-100km/h), you have to pay (more) toll and more importantly you have to get a special drivers license in most cases (cost + time). Camper vans usually get very close to that limit. Even if the van has only 2 sleeping spots. Weight i…
16 kg on 3500 kg is nothing and you definitely need 200W and not 40W
3500kg for the whole vehicle including interior + 100L of water + 100L of Diesel + 50 L of gray water + 2 Passengers + 1 shower + 1 bed + 1 kitchen + 2x11 l gas etc.
As I mentioned: A typical camper van is borderline at 3300 kg already so you have 200 kg for cloths, food, water to drink, bedding, etc. It even matters whether or not you gained 10kg during winter or lost 10kg.
16kg equates to about 2 lithium ion 100WH batteries 1-2 bikes for bike tours 1 grill + extra gas for a barbecue
etc.
So you can decide between those or a conventional solar panel or you just pick panels that weight less then you can have both.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
As they mention in the article though, there are lots of applications that aren't space-limited but are structurally-limited (warehouses) in that they can't support the weight of solar panels without more engineering. I did think it was strange that they obfuscated the W/m^2 statistic by only presenting W/kg and kg/m^2. I suppose focusing on watts per kilogram better aligns with a breakthrough in installations with p…
In that case I suggest installing efficient panels in some large installation somewhere else. Like, a power company solar farm miles from your warehouse. It's such a strange magpie impulse folks have to want solar on their house. Look at my stuff! I'm doing things! From a societal point of view the efficient installation is in bulk, serviceable, unobstructed. A rooftop is comically not these things.
Great in a sparsely populated country like the US, not so much in Belgium, Netherlands, South East England where such installations end up either on agricultural land or in places where housing is needed.
Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
As they mention in the article though, there are lots of applications that aren't space-limited but are structurally-limited (warehouses) in that they can't support the weight of solar panels without more engineering. I did think it was strange that they obfuscated the W/m^2 statistic by only presenting W/kg and kg/m^2. I suppose focusing on watts per kilogram better aligns with a breakthrough in installations with p…
On the other hand, 100g/m² is too low for “simply unroll it on a roof” . A carpet so light will blow away in a storm, worst-case taking (part of) the roof with it (roofs often are fairly weak when pulled upwards or sidewards. That’s why solar panels on roofs sometimes are weighed down: it keeps the net force on the roof more or less downwards, even if the wind exerts an upwards force) What would you use to attach the…
Since it is fabric presumably you could just stick them down the same way you do with a felted roof. I guess you could even incorporate it into a felt roll.