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Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

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Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#31

Post by cnntth »

eldaisfish wrote: post #22
r_hoods_ghost wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could run cables down the roof and the outside outside of the wall which not particularly rare. Actually that's the case for one of the aerials on my roof. And piercing roofs isn't exactly uncommon. Aircon vents, chimneys, mountings for aerials etc. The thing with something like this is that it doesn't have to be an optimal solution which instantly solves all our problems, which is what a lot of people seem to de…

ressources are not infinite and framing the problem as one of good being the enemy of perfect is disingenuous. Rooftop solar is a terrible idea when compared to the alternative - utility scale solar, installed at the right location, in the right way, with economies of scale; all while achieving everything you mentioned. Rooftop solar has numerous problems, starting with structural considerations, scale, shading, impe…

To bring it back: Governmental policy vs individual choice? If I, a consumer of electricity want to reduce my GHG impact, I can only lobby the source of my electricity so much. Rooftop solar might be less efficient than gridscale for the system, but it's something the individual can do.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#32

Post by nonethewiser »

photochemsyn wrote: post #24

Monocrystalline Si solar panels have so many advantages that it's hard to get interested in anything else for home or business construction. Lifetime is measured in decades, not years; efficiency is approaching 25% while prices are dropping (only expensive multi-junction III-V types are better, currently limited to satellite power systems); and for variable surfaces, they can be manufactured as small shingles as well…

> Of course a boom in solar PV installation in the USA would pull the rug out from under natural gas prices, which more-or-less explains government policy in this area.

I'm not convinced. Virtually everything is much cheaper to manufacture in China.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#33

Post by 082349872349872 »

mdorazio wrote: post #13

Key item here: “These cells as they are could last one or two years without packaging,” Bulović says. “With packaging, we could extend that to five to 10 years. And that’s plenty.” As with existing thin film cells, degradation in real-world outdoor conditions is significant and limits usefulness.

this suggests it might be useful in temporary deployments, to judge how much solar input actual sites get for a typical period — then replaced with a more permanent solution.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#34

Post by Scubabear68 »

rconti wrote: post #28
photochemsyn wrote: post #24

Monocrystalline Si solar panels have so many advantages that it's hard to get interested in anything else for home or business construction. Lifetime is measured in decades, not years; efficiency is approaching 25% while prices are dropping (only expensive multi-junction III-V types are better, currently limited to satellite power systems); and for variable surfaces, they can be manufactured as small shingles as well…

Is USA government policy actively antagonistic towards this specific technology? Or just doesn't have specific support/incentives for this specific kind of technology? Is there any reason the market doesn't/can't support buying these panels here? Or are there weird tariffs against it? IS there not already a boom in solar PV installation in the USA? It looks like we're far from a watts-per-capita leader (15th in the w…

The oil and gas lobby in the US is staggeringly powerful. Many US regulatory bodies (like FERC) have been captured by industry for years. It has been very difficult to do anything that might negatively impact the oil and gas industry.

So not so much anti-solar as anti-anything-threatening-fossil-fuels.

See also: “clean coal”.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#35

Post by gilbetron »

photochemsyn wrote: post #24

Monocrystalline Si solar panels have so many advantages that it's hard to get interested in anything else for home or business construction. Lifetime is measured in decades, not years; efficiency is approaching 25% while prices are dropping (only expensive multi-junction III-V types are better, currently limited to satellite power systems); and for variable surfaces, they can be manufactured as small shingles as well…

A lot of areas in the US are great for solar, but for many of the urban areas, it sucks. Solar in and around LA or Denver? Great! Solar in and around Detroit or Chicago? Awful. I brought out an installer and he literally LOLed when he saw my house. Great trees, wonderful yard, compact house, but hardly any location for solar given the amount of sun we get where I live.

Not to mention the carbon costs of producing solar isn't great.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#36

Post by SoftTalker »

082349872349872 wrote: post #33
mdorazio wrote: post #13

Key item here: “These cells as they are could last one or two years without packaging,” Bulović says. “With packaging, we could extend that to five to 10 years. And that’s plenty.” As with existing thin film cells, degradation in real-world outdoor conditions is significant and limits usefulness.

this suggests it might be useful in temporary deployments, to judge how much solar input actual sites get for a typical period — then replaced with a more permanent solution.

You could determine that with a few light meters. Or probably historical weather satellite images.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#37

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ilyt wrote: post #27
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pierce the supposedly waterproof roof (the entire point of a roof). And mounted at whatever angle the roof is built, instead of an optimal angle. And are in the most difficult place for maintenance and cleaning, so those things will be neglected. And you need to replace the roof? Now what?

> And are in the most difficult place for maintenance and cleaning, so those things will be neglected. They don't need much service. And it's not like you need a helicopter to get there > And you need to replace the roof? Now what? That's one in 50 years event Like yeah, if you have good amount of space that is otherwise unused go ahead, but realistically someone will want that space for a house or business, not a bu…

Or, in a utility solar farm, where they work well.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#38

Post by micromacrofoot »

gilbetron wrote: post #35
photochemsyn wrote: post #24

Monocrystalline Si solar panels have so many advantages that it's hard to get interested in anything else for home or business construction. Lifetime is measured in decades, not years; efficiency is approaching 25% while prices are dropping (only expensive multi-junction III-V types are better, currently limited to satellite power systems); and for variable surfaces, they can be manufactured as small shingles as well…

A lot of areas in the US are great for solar, but for many of the urban areas, it sucks. Solar in and around LA or Denver? Great! Solar in and around Detroit or Chicago? Awful. I brought out an installer and he literally LOLed when he saw my house. Great trees, wonderful yard, compact house, but hardly any location for solar given the amount of sun we get where I live. Not to mention the carbon costs of producing sol…

It’s ok if solar doesn't work everywhere, even in the places where it’s optimal it’s barely being used right now. There’s a lot of work to be done. Even if we just covered the country’s parking lots with solar awnings we’d be producing huge amounts of power.

Re: Paper-Thin Solar Makes Any Surface Photovoltaic

#39

Post by perlgeek »

photochemsyn wrote: post #24

Monocrystalline Si solar panels have so many advantages that it's hard to get interested in anything else for home or business construction. Lifetime is measured in decades, not years; efficiency is approaching 25% while prices are dropping (only expensive multi-junction III-V types are better, currently limited to satellite power systems); and for variable surfaces, they can be manufactured as small shingles as well…

> Monocrystalline Si solar panels have so many advantages that it's hard to get interested in anything else for home or business construction.

I agree.

"Classical" is already cost effective in many areas of the world, and would be in even more if the electricity price accurately reflected the societal cost of releasing CO2 into the atmosphere.

These paper-thin solar elements would fill a different niche though. If it's cheap enough (and doesn't come with other downsides), you could plaster any surfaces with it that aren't suitable for panel installations (think car hoods, boats, whatever).

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