Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#271

Post by mattdesl » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 1:45 AM UTC

itishappy wrote: post #238

mattdesl wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A centralized organization like EA, you mean? That is what parent is pointing out: you don’t own the assets under license. If you want to see an example of decentralization in the context of a game, look at Dark Forest. https://www.designboom.com/technology/dark-forest-one-of-a-k...

Neat game and tech, but I'm still left wondering what benefit blockchain actually offers here. This looks like a run-of-the-mill Facebook/Zynga space exploration game from 15 years ago. Now, I'm no fan of either of those companies, but to my knowledge a lack of trust in the centralized server was never an issue. What benefit justifies the drastically increased costs and reduced speeds from moving this on-chain?

Benefits: decentralized, censorship resistant, permissionless. Can’t have your account suspended, assets censored, or API key revoked by the game publisher. Can decide to build competing clients on top of the same shared structure.

Whether it’s “worth it” depends on your view. Dark Forest and L2 blockchains are much, much less expensive than a lot of modern games. The graphics are not impressive, but it’s not really relevant—anybody could build a better client; and many games can succeed despite limited graphics, such as Dwarf Fortress and Minecraft.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#272

Post by mattdesl » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 1:47 AM UTC

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #270

mattdesl wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A centralized organization like EA, you mean? That is what parent is pointing out: you don’t own the assets under license. If you want to see an example of decentralization in the context of a game, look at Dark Forest. https://www.designboom.com/technology/dark-forest-one-of-a-k...

> A centralized organization like EA, you mean? Not like EA because that wouldn't be a separate organization / 3rd party. The only interesting thing OP is asking for is someone other than the game company to maintain digital title tracking. That is a reasonable request. The same way your city might have a database of who owns title's for our house. A centralized database owned by a 3rd party. But none of that has any…

Shifting the burden from the game developer to a walled garden store with digital assets (like Apple or Steam) has also not proven ideal.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#273

Post by hedora » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 2:53 AM UTC

bornfreddy wrote: post #259

hedora wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably don't get by without it entirely. Set up a DNS black hole for all of TLS's TLDs, and watch your local network collapse. (Having said that, I more-or-less never log into my google account, and also don't intentionally use any of their services.)

> ...for all of TLS's TLDs,... Curious what you meant by that? Which TLDs are that and why would my local network collapse?

My keyboard autocorrected Google to TLS. Huh.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#274

Post by Brystephor » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 5:43 AM UTC

Brian_K_White wrote: post #77

Brystephor wrote: post #8

I work in payments. This is pretty normal AFAIK. Doing a chargeback is a good way to be "fired" as a customer and not allowed to use that companies services anymore.

google is not a small local shop only responsible for one tiny part of your life like a plumber. They have actively sought to make themselves integral to your whole life. When the plumber fires you, you do not lose access to your retirement account because ypu can no longer prove your identity because your phone and email both went up in smoke. That comes with responsibility. This is a quite false equivalence. Charge…

I agree that having poor customer service is unacceptable. I agree that losing your access to email is a tragic thing and extremely difficult to resolve all the other issues that come with that. I'm not really commenting on the situation other than that issuing a chargeback commonly results in a loss of access to that companies services.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#275

Post by Brystephor » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 5:46 AM UTC

toomanyrichies wrote: post #18

Brystephor wrote: post #8

I work in payments. This is pretty normal AFAIK. Doing a chargeback is a good way to be "fired" as a customer and not allowed to use that companies services anymore.

Isn't this a great way to motivate users to respond by setting up throw-away accounts, with disposable forwarding emails and Privacy.com-generated credit card numbers? True, this is a multi-step process, but it also seems like something which could be automated.

Virtual cards are often associated with fraud or malicious actions and may be rejected entirely. Generating cards probably can be done programmatically, but so can recognizing and blocking those cards.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#276

Post by Brystephor » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 5:48 AM UTC

mbauman wrote: post #33

Brystephor wrote: post #8

I work in payments. This is pretty normal AFAIK. Doing a chargeback is a good way to be "fired" as a customer and not allowed to use that companies services anymore.

That's not really the problem. The problem is that *customer support* suggested to do so.

That's definitely a problem. But a lot of people seem surprised that issuing a chargeback can result in a loss of access to company services. So was just sharing from my work experience.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#277

Post by Brystephor » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 5:53 AM UTC

theturtletalks wrote: post #11

Brystephor wrote: post #8

I work in payments. This is pretty normal AFAIK. Doing a chargeback is a good way to be "fired" as a customer and not allowed to use that companies services anymore.

Yes, this is true. I never knew doing a chargeback against the Google Store would get your email account banned. Google can do what it wants, I just wanted to let people know so they think twice before doing a chargeback against Google.

It's definitely surprising. Chargebacks cause additional issues for a company which is why they're treated more severely than something like a late payment, refunds, etc.

It seems like a lot of folks are surprised by a chargeback causing a loss of access to the company services so wanted to share my experience that this is not abnormal. Big companies tend to do this.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#278

Post by Ferret7446 » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

theturtletalks wrote: post #11

Brystephor wrote: post #8

I work in payments. This is pretty normal AFAIK. Doing a chargeback is a good way to be "fired" as a customer and not allowed to use that companies services anymore.

Yes, this is true. I never knew doing a chargeback against the Google Store would get your email account banned. Google can do what it wants, I just wanted to let people know so they think twice before doing a chargeback against Google.

Chargebacks get you banned from pretty much every single company/service.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#279

Post by 10729287 » Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 1:07 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #129

10729287 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... just a confirmation that signing for anything on google just makes you their hostage. I'm happy I quit them 5 years ago after I couldn't have access to my mail anymore after I stepped down my paid drive access to free one and I didn't have space anymore to receive emails.

Because that hit you by surprise, or because you intended to keep all those photos while on the free tier? It seems to me like deleting the files over your storage limit is the easy path for both you and google and I don't see how this is an example of holding you hostage. At most bad communication and a lack of warning.

Don't remember exactly but I was expecting not the two services being linked. IIRC I already downloaded back a lot of pictures and my free plan was something like 99% full. The fact that Google blocked my email reception without any notice was hard to swallow.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#280

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 12:34 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #255

kube-system wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone thinks their system is reasonable, that's the whole problem. Banks obviously don't think chargeback fraud is fraud when they perform fraudulent chargebacks. They think they're reasonably legit, which is why they perform them. Retailers also think their fraud prevention systems are reasonable. Reasonable means different things to different people and it certainly doesn't mean infallible. Nobody in any of thes…

> Everyone thinks their system is reasonable Okay? I didn't say they get to choose. Was the implication of "shouldn't be able" not clear enough? You'd have externally imposed rules. And in this case google hasn't expressed that they think the process was reasonable, they're just refusing to do anything.

[deleted]