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Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

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Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#211

Post by addingadimensio »

Eisenstein wrote: post #54
danhak wrote: post #8

We coerced young, low-risk people into receiving these treatments despite known side effects on pain of losing their education or employment or being able to enter privately-owned establishments (irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those privately-owned establishments). We justified it with the specious argument that they were putting other people at undue risk by remaining unvaccinated. We claimed that vacci…

We require young people to get vaccinated as a rule in order to obtain education. Every medical intervention involves risks. So does taking a shower or taking the bus to school. We all have to take risks and some of them are mandated for the good of society. There were very good indications that the vaccine would prevent spread. Public policy decisions which cost lives are not unusual and although tragic, are often n…

No post body was provided.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#212

Post by mrtksn »

nulld3v wrote: post #208
mrtksn wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This paper doesn't claim that mRNA vaccines are dangerous, it investigates through autopsy 35 people in a region of Germany who died within 20 days of vaccination and only 5 of the deaths are found to show myocarditis of which only 3 somewhat might be attributed to the vaccine. This is not an expose of big Pharma or anything like that, I don't know why the HN comments are acting as if this is some kind of research su…

Yeah, I also currently believe that the statistics work out in favor of the vaccine. I am curious though, on how those 3 people died. My biggest concern is in long-term effects. I understand that it is difficult to study them but that is why I am advocating for continued research. So basically: - I understand that in a pandemic situation, you can't wait for research into long-term effects to come out. - Hence, in a p…

Is there anything make you believe that the research doesn't continue?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#213

Post by danhak »

gamacodre wrote: post #153
nulld3v wrote: post #67

I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…

This has bugged me since the beginning of this mess. It ought to be possible to say "Hey this looks kind of funny, could the vaccines be having weird effects in this .0000001% of the population?" without daggers coming out all around. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that "The SARS-Cov-2 vaccines occasionally cause health problems" and "Almost everyone should get vaccinated/boosted" are both entirely true statemen…

The issue is that there were coercive government mandates.

"Almost everyone should get vaccinated" does not mean the government should coerce everyone into making the correct medical decision by barring them from employment or access to private establishments.

Absent a very compelling reason, people should be free to go against medical advice. People have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. People have the right to make the wrong choice.

In this case, the reason given for overriding that freedom was a highly specious argument that the unvaccinated were putting other people at significant risk. That argument did not pass the smell test from the very beginning.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#214

Post by addingadimensio »

gwd wrote: post #150
danhak wrote: post #8

We coerced young, low-risk people into receiving these treatments despite known side effects on pain of losing their education or employment or being able to enter privately-owned establishments (irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those privately-owned establishments). We justified it with the specious argument that they were putting other people at undue risk by remaining unvaccinated. We claimed that vacci…

You know what also causes myocarditis? COVID-19 [1]. So the choices were: 1. Don't pressure young people to get vaccinated. Nearly everyone who's unvaccinated eventually catches COVID-19. Some of them would have severe reactions and die; or spend time in a hospital, taking up space and delaying care for others, causing those other people to die. Nearly all of them would pass COVID-19 on to other people, many of whom…

You still get Covid after you are vaccinated. Fun fact if you are vaccinated before you catch Covid you cannot develop an immunity to the nucleocapsid is this good is this bad I don’t know tune in in 10 years when we know more

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#215

Post by littlestymaar »

gfodor wrote: post #68
littlestymaar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about despite the fact that it literally can kill you. There are many many things that can literally kill you. Heck, even anosmia can literally kill you under the right circumstances. What matters is the total number of vaccine-related myocarditis cases, and the total number of vaccine-related myocarditis death balanced with the number of covid related-death (including Covid-induced fatal myocarditis, because the v…

False, the idea that pure net deaths is the only way to think about all that happened is the common thread that people have been clinging to for far too long. It is time to wake up, and remember principles of bioethics, the risk of authoritarian coercive forces, and the nature of dehumanization campaigns. You do not mandate rapidly formulated, under-tested, frontier technology emergency drugs for all humans to work a…

Sorry to annoy you with the basics of public health policy.

And the cost-benefit analysis being different for different age classes and comorbidity is exactly the reason why the vaccines was slowly expanded to larger demographics after starting with the most vulnerable people.

In fact, the side effects of the vaccine have been much more thoroughly tracked than many pollutants that are routinely introduced in everybody's life and which somehow never trigger such a reaction from you others who care so much about all this when it comes to vaccines. The amount of hazardous material that are being put in everything from food to cosmetics or kids' toys is appalling, but all you guys have to complain about is vaccines… You claim to care about under-tested frontier technology, but somehow aren't bothered with sunscreen or bisphenol S, why is that?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#216

Post by manwe150 »

jerkstate wrote: post #177
estewart wrote: post #37

The last paragraph in the article literally indicates there is no causal relationship or proof of any direct link between the vaccination and myocarditis. > "Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis."

But we know for certain that they were all very safe drivers /s

Just curious, but are you referring to the recent Canadian study that showed people who self-selected for vaccination may also be associated with being safer drivers? https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(22)00822-1/fulltex...

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#217

Post by addingadimensio »

Ensorceled wrote: post #84
danhak wrote: post #8

We coerced young, low-risk people into receiving these treatments despite known side effects on pain of losing their education or employment or being able to enter privately-owned establishments (irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those privately-owned establishments). We justified it with the specious argument that they were putting other people at undue risk by remaining unvaccinated. We claimed that vacci…

> We claimed that vaccinated people would not spread the virus. Who is "we", I have never seen anything other the claims that there were claims. Can you point me to an epidemiologist that made this claim. > And we gave the companies producing these vaccines blanket legal immunity from any potential liability. We have ALWAYS given vaccine companies blanket legal immunity. This isn't a new thing and there are good reas…

No post body was provided.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#218

Post by tempsy »

jszymborski wrote: post #182
tempsy wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so if you believe your chance of dying of covid is improbably small due to age and overall health, why is it necessary to be vaccinated even if there's only a small chance of side effects? Rare is not zero. I don't even take OTC pain killers like advil unless I absolutely feel like I have to.

[deleted, I retract my statement]

Myocarditis literally has it's own page on the CDC covid vaccine website https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#219

Post by LarryMullins »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #106
thewizardofaus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But wait 15 minutes to see if your child gets anaphylaxis from them. We could have tested for allergy before giving the vaccine but its more convenient to have you wait around after." The waiting period of 15 minutes after a vaccine has always been recommended. It's standard medical recommendation and safety.

These type of complaints has actually been really enlightening for me regarding how many people can't even be bothered to get the flu vaccine or their tetanus shots.

I got a tetanus shot a year ago and they didn't ask me to wait around afterwards. They just handed me the paperwork and showed me the door (this was after they had already stitched me up.)

I see the CDC website says that a 15 minute wait after getting a tetanus shot is recommended due to a fainting risk. But I bet this is not widely observed. I surmise they had already judged me to not be a fainting risk, since I didn't faint when they were sewing me.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#220

Post by oneoff786 »

TheCrownedFox wrote: post #174
oneoff786 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer the government was completely indifferent to religious beliefs. Because any belief can be construed as religious if you’re willing to take the position that religion is stupid and you don’t care about optics. So yeah, I would prefer beliefs not garner you special privileges

What special privileges are being garnered? The topsy-turvy world of the religious person existing as the exception rather than the rule is quite odd to me. But regardless, in the USA the religious exemption policy is incredibly diverse and welcoming, you are correct on that. You do not even need to communicate with your God in expressible ways to other people. What should be the limit on someone's divine communicati…

> What special privileges are being garnered?

The exemption

> What should be the limit on someone's divine communication and the restrictions upon the government they live under?

None. But your definition of divine communication should not override otherwise unrelated rules.

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