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Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#91

Post by indymike »

paulgb wrote: post #53

There are some comments in here that verge on assuming bad faith on the part of the companies involved, so I think it's worth pointing out that this is a new law which has been in effect for just over a month. It's been on the way for a while, so it's not “sudden”, but it’s still a new thing that people are figuring out and it’s easier to forget about if you’re in the habit of re-using old listings. (Not about OP, wh…

>There are some comments in here that verge on assuming bad faith on the part of the companies involved

Not disclosing pay is illegal in three states in the US, and has the practical effect of reducing the number of applicants to the advertised job by 14%, so it's self-harming for the employer anyway. Bonus: a lot of job boards will just plug an "estimated salary" in for you to max their CTR and revenue on syndication.

> people are figuring out and it’s easier to forget about if you’re in the habit of re-using old listings.

Some companies don't hire very often, so yes. But for startups and venture funded, high growth companies to be unaware after two years is not cool. We need to do better... and you can see from the people posting here, some of them would rather report employers to the AG than get a job at that company. I'm not sure how productive that is, but I do think it shows why a law was required to get a minimal level of disclosure.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#93

Post by gregjor »

shanebellone wrote: post #73
gregjor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But if someone wants YC to enforce posting salary ranges in job posts they might want to take that up privately with YC management rather than starting with public criticism. In other contexts people usually advocate "praise publicly, criticize privately." If the OP thinks YC job posts break the law or fall short of ethical rules then I suggest asking YC about it rather than accusing YC companies of "breaking h…

OP didn't accuse. OP pointed out. NY evidently requires pay ranges. This job posting did not include the required pay range. There are also zero posts disparaging the company, YC, or HN. Any particular range you're upset about this?

The original post title: "Why are YC companies breaking hiring laws?"

I read that as an accusation. OP did not name any specific companies supposedly breaking hiring laws. New York City started requiring salary ranges in job postings for most companies (not all) just a few weeks ago. I would interpret a few job postings that don't include salaries as oversights or perhaps companies exempt from the law (which has a few exceptions).

If someone posted "Why is HN allowing shanelbellone to break the law?" would you read that as an accusation?

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#94

Post by wpietri »

gregjor wrote: post #64
wpietri wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably because HN is not a law enforcement agency for New York City. True, but irrelevant, as that's not the only reason to do it. YC has a brand whose value they surely wish to maintain. Presumably that gives them an interest in not directly aiding companies in breaking the law.

Ethical behavior, to me, includes considering more than one reason someone or some company does something I don't like. Possibly these companies posting on HN deliberately intended to break the law. Equally possibly (more likely, in my opinion) those companies don't know about the law, or haven't had time to comply since the law went into effect just a few weeks ago. Any number of explanations present themselves, and…

I don't believe I said anything about intent. Indeed, my comment is rooted in the assumption that YC wants to do the right thing here. Did you mean to reply to somebody else?

Even assuming the best of intent -- in fact, especially when we assume that -- YC's role as a guide to often-novice entrepreneurs means they should be helping out here. Both by educating them on changing hiring laws and by sending back inadequate job postings for reworking.

Regarding your last paragraph, I'll also note that whether "the company broke hiring laws" is a purely factual question, as is whether or not HN publishes job ads that break the law. A generous interpretation involves why and how they did it, but can't include denying the facts.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#95

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #83
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not add it by default?

posting a number can help confident people but hurts others example, developer makes 100k, has imposter syndrome, sees a great job that has an internal range of 150k-200k. if the dev knew the range they’d think no way they would qualify for THAT much money. the company would happily pay at bottom range for them, but instead they don’t even see the developer. ranges select for confident people.

I'm sorry but... what kind of victim blaming nonsense is this? Seeing a salary range intimidates people?!

That's 100% worth the cost, friend. Knowing what you're applying for/to is absolutely critical information, and having it before applying is a substantial amount of leverage in any negotiation.

That's like saying people shouldn't post where a job is because some people might not live there, or not to post C++ jobs because not everyone knows C++...

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#97

Post by yamtaddle »

indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> * If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly - as in within minutes of the application. A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later.

My experience with being hired at non-FAANG places over a career of more than two decades is that I'm usually through a process and hired within a week. Often, like three days, from first contact to offer. I think my single longest job search was maybe a month, total. Companies that have these weeks- or months-long processes but don't pay FAANG-tier wages to make it worth the wait, I have no idea how the hell they manage to hire anyone at all. You've got to move or I'll already be looking at two other offers before you set the date for your second round or WTF ever.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#99

Post by ancientworldnow »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #83
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not add it by default?

posting a number can help confident people but hurts others example, developer makes 100k, has imposter syndrome, sees a great job that has an internal range of 150k-200k. if the dev knew the range they’d think no way they would qualify for THAT much money. the company would happily pay at bottom range for them, but instead they don’t even see the developer. ranges select for confident people.

Read another way, hiding salary range let's companies take advantage of low confidence applicants by exploiting their labor at below market rates.

Insecurity in pay only arises through hiding the true value of labor.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#100

Post by [deleted] »

Osiris wrote: post #71
ntonozzi wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet many job postings, even those that are only in Colorado, still don't have the salary on the job posting.

My point is that it’s not a new law. It’s new for New York but other states have required it for a long time.

[deleted]
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