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Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#91

Post by HideousKojima »

bloopernova wrote: post #82

Why are people using Fentanyl? Maybe tackle that instead of further marginalizing people who use it? Are they using it to escape the grinding anxiety and desperation of their shitty lives? Are they using it instead of alcohol, again as escapism from reality? Is this use any different from how people used alcohol in past decades? I guess the point I'm poorly trying to make is that people aren't suddenly different to t…

>Why are people using Fentanyl? Maybe tackle that instead of further marginalizing people who use it?

As far as the common narrative I've seen in the media goes, it's not that they are actively seeking out fentanyl to use (generally). It's that they are seeking out opioids in general, and a lot of unscrupulous distributors and dealers are cutting their product with fentanyl to make it more potent, or something to that effect. Whether or not this is actually the case, I'm not sure.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#92

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tiffanyh wrote: post #31
cies wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the legitimate/medical/supervised usage, it the recreational use that kills. Marijuana (MJ) is used a lot recreationally; if people to use MJ instead of Fentanyl the OD cases would not pile up like they do today.

It's just weird logic to say "X causes more deaths than Y, Y should be legal then". E.g. car accidents kill more people per year than marijuana. Does that mean driving a car should become illegal, and marijuana legalized? https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marijuana-deaths-2014_n_56816...

That's not comparing like for like. For better or worse driving is considered to have huge social utility.

Fent addiction has huge negative utility for everyone - except its manufacturers and their investors.

MJ is probably more or less neutral.

In terms of broad social effects, refined sugar is probably the deadliest of all drugs, but its direct effects - especially in sodas - are much smaller than its indirect contribution to obesity and diabetes. And unlike a dramatic overdose death, it's very slow-acting. So it's barely considered a problem.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#93

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #74
Zak wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prescription drug sales reps market to doctors , attempting to convince them to prescribe certain drugs more frequently. Who pays for the drugs is largely irrelevant to that interaction, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn it's illegal in the UK.

It’s not. They have drug sales reps in the UK. I actually don’t know of any country that bans them. I mean, if a doctor has a question about a drug, who better to ask than the rep from the company who makes it? I worked in the industry and reps are generally account managers for the company.

[deleted]

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#94

Post by HideousKojima »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #39
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

We already tried that, it doesn't work. Hint: tobacco and alcohol deaths didn't decrease when tobacco and alcohol sales were decriminalized. What does work is making the cost of drugs prohibitive by placing great transaction costs on the drug trade. (See: taxes and tobacco.)

Actually, it did. Cirrhosis deaths decreased between 10 and 20% during prohibition:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/42705455

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#95

Post by alldayeveryday »

bloopernova wrote: post #82

Why are people using Fentanyl? Maybe tackle that instead of further marginalizing people who use it? Are they using it to escape the grinding anxiety and desperation of their shitty lives? Are they using it instead of alcohol, again as escapism from reality? Is this use any different from how people used alcohol in past decades? I guess the point I'm poorly trying to make is that people aren't suddenly different to t…

> I guess the point I'm poorly trying to make is that people aren't suddenly different to those in the 1970s, 1920s, or the 1800s. They have a similar environment with similar anxieties, pains, responsibilities, etc etc.

Not in agreement on this. 2020 looks profoundly different than 1920, for example from the lens of western societies. People are more atomized, have less friends, are having less kids, are getting married less often, divorced more often, job prospects for blue collars workers have diminished, etc etc. Not to mention the simple fact that Fentanyl did not exist in 1920. While man might not have changed much inherently, their environment has changed profoundly and seemingly not for the better.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#96

Post by rayiner »

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Damn libertarians. You can also ban drugs, imprison or kill the drug dealers, and ostracize the drug users. Works in Asia.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#97

Post by refurb »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #34
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Your argument is intriguing but you haven’t explained why this would help keep people from dying of fentanyl overdoses?

People abuse pharmaceutical fentanyl and don’t die. Why? Because if it says “50 ug fentanyl” they know exactly how much they are getting.

Rather than some off white powder that contains an unknown amount fentanyl.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#98

Post by the__alchemist »

Getting a needle inserted for blood draw sucks. Getting one of the fatter ones that can inject things into a vein hurts! How good could the high be that it's worth that, if you're not suffering from a serious injury or disease that would warrant painkillers?

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#99

Post by snvzz »

adrr wrote: post #60
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Opiates used to be unregulated in the US and the US had an opiate addiction issue. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/inside-story-americas...

And yet, it never got as bad as right now.

Congrats, prohibition has made the situation worse.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#100

Post by bloopernova »

alldayeveryday wrote: post #95
bloopernova wrote: post #82

Why are people using Fentanyl? Maybe tackle that instead of further marginalizing people who use it? Are they using it to escape the grinding anxiety and desperation of their shitty lives? Are they using it instead of alcohol, again as escapism from reality? Is this use any different from how people used alcohol in past decades? I guess the point I'm poorly trying to make is that people aren't suddenly different to t…

> I guess the point I'm poorly trying to make is that people aren't suddenly different to those in the 1970s, 1920s, or the 1800s. They have a similar environment with similar anxieties, pains, responsibilities, etc etc. Not in agreement on this. 2020 looks profoundly different than 1920, for example from the lens of western societies. People are more atomized, have less friends, are having less kids, are getting mar…

Conceding that point, you're right.

People still look to escape the drudgery of their world, that doesn't change. You're right that we have far fewer social supports. Although I do wonder if a study would confirm that people with smaller in person social networks use or overuse drugs less than more isolated people.

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