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Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#71

Post by etiennebausson »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #25
DrBazza wrote: post #5

Sort-of-related, for Americans reading this, from a Brit, when I watch US TV programmes, the inclusion of drugs (prescription and illegal) in scripts is so matter-of-fact, it's actually shocking. Comparing like-for-like programs (police dramas, hospital dramas, thrillers), the UK version will invariably have entirely different plots. Sure the US != UK, but it's so weird. Isn't the USA the only country other than NZ t…

The US and particularly online cultures seem almost obsessed with drugs and I have a hard time believing it is only due to the taboo aspect of it.

I though it was brought partially by wealth gaps and hopelessness. The drugs epidemic in the US is now at least 50 years old (maybe a bit better between 2000 and 2008?). Two generations were raised while it existed and that more that anything banalized drugs. Fentalyn might be the latest one to trend, but it was Opioid, Meth, Cocaine, Crack and LSD before, all the way to the 70's.

I suppose Isolation during Covid might play a role, but I have not seen any stats relating drugs and the pandemic so far.

A culture hyping 70-hours weeks and over-employment as solutions to cost-of-living issues is not healthy, and drugs are just one of the symptom.

Fentalyn isn't really the problem. The need for drugs to escape/cope is.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#72

Post by nordsieck »

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

> All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution.

> You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices.

I think that a basic familiarity of the Chinese experience with British opium would suggest that full legalization for the more dangerous drugs is not a panacea.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#73

Post by HeyImAlex »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #39
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

We already tried that, it doesn't work. Hint: tobacco and alcohol deaths didn't decrease when tobacco and alcohol sales were decriminalized. What does work is making the cost of drugs prohibitive by placing great transaction costs on the drug trade. (See: taxes and tobacco.)

The article mentions fentanyl is more deadly but also 5-10 times cheaper than the opiates it replaces. $4 for an oxy clone is wildly accessible. No telling if I would have tried it as a teenager had they been that cheap and available.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#74

Post by refurb »

Zak wrote: post #47
DrBazza wrote: post #5

Sort-of-related, for Americans reading this, from a Brit, when I watch US TV programmes, the inclusion of drugs (prescription and illegal) in scripts is so matter-of-fact, it's actually shocking. Comparing like-for-like programs (police dramas, hospital dramas, thrillers), the UK version will invariably have entirely different plots. Sure the US != UK, but it's so weird. Isn't the USA the only country other than NZ t…

Prescription drug sales reps market to doctors , attempting to convince them to prescribe certain drugs more frequently. Who pays for the drugs is largely irrelevant to that interaction, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn it's illegal in the UK.

It’s not. They have drug sales reps in the UK. I actually don’t know of any country that bans them.

I mean, if a doctor has a question about a drug, who better to ask than the rep from the company who makes it?

I worked in the industry and reps are generally account managers for the company.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#75

Post by Zak »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #39
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

We already tried that, it doesn't work. Hint: tobacco and alcohol deaths didn't decrease when tobacco and alcohol sales were decriminalized. What does work is making the cost of drugs prohibitive by placing great transaction costs on the drug trade. (See: taxes and tobacco.)

Death and disability from methanol-contaminated alcohol decreased when alcohol sales were re-legalized in the US. This is partly due to the government mandating the inclusion of methanol in denatured alcohol for industrial purposes.

Many of the current overdose deaths are not the result of people knowingly taking an acutely risky dose; they are instead the result of black market drugs having unpredictable composition and purity. It is likely that drug legalization would reduce that kind of overdose.

Note I wrote legalization rather than decriminalization. The distinction is that with legalization, production and distribution are legal, while decriminalization just removes serious penalties for end users.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#76

Post by jack_pp »

thepasswordis wrote: post #69
jack_pp wrote: post #46

This would be solved if drugs were decriminalized and testing kits were very easy to use and come by but I guess a lot more people have to die before society as a whole acquires common sense

Parts of San Francisco have implemented these exact policies and they have made the problems a LOT worse.

Unfortunately I don't know the exact specifics of the situation there as I don't live in the US. I know there's a large homeless problem but not the details. Maybe the policies I mentioned also need other policies to balance them out, policies like you're not allowed to camp on the street and you're not allowed to steal, at all.

Maybe don't allow people to drive under the influence of any drug that's not a stimulant, or improve tests that measure the dose a person is on so we know if they're on normal dose adderal or high on huge doses of meth.

I know law isn't easy to test and iterate but we need something like that in order to improve things, maybe invent temporary laws, specific to certain test cities, which require direct voting to enforce, have a maximum test period and require another vote to lengthen.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#77

Post by 323 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #65
323 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that would upset the teetotalers and puritans. It's easy to cater to them. In the packet that legalizes all drugs you also remove all gun control laws. So you make all drugs and all guns legal in all circumstances and at all times, just like it should be in a free country. The state should not control what you put in your mouth or veins or what you carry in your pocket.

And if I don't want some rando putting a bullet in me in a mall or school shooting spree what "freedom" do I have to avoid that? And don't say "carry" because that's been proven time and again to be utter nonsense in practice.

People make the same argument about drugs: what if a druggie attacks me with a knife in a mall.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#78

Post by jdmtheNth »

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

That would make sense only if taxpayers weren't on the hook for the consequences.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#79

Post by kirstenbirgit »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #34
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Your argument is intriguing but you haven’t explained why this would help keep people from dying of fentanyl overdoses?

I don't think very many users want Fentanyl at all; short high, little to no euphoria. What users really want is diamorphine or similar, which is way less dangerous, but fentanyl is commonly used because it's cheaper to produce. Pure, consistent drugs would allow users to dose correctly and avoid overdoses.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#80

Post by sklargh »

Operational question, why do the DEA and ATF exist? It seems that they are A. Failures* and B. Lack any distinctive law enforcement mission. Couldn't we just roll their missions up into the FBI? Perhaps the Secret Service as well? This feels far more efficient than several fragmented failures occurring simultaneously.

*Eyeballing success by the number of murders with illegal firearms and drug deaths.

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