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Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#31

Post by tiffanyh »

cies wrote: post #17
tiffanyh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re conflating things. Fentanyl is a Schedule II controlled substance. So while yes, it’s “legal” - it’s an extremely controlled narcotic. Said differently, it’s illegal if you’re in position of it and it wasn’t prescribed by a medical doctor. Unlike marijuana that doesn’t need a prescription where it’s allowed.

It's not about the legitimate/medical/supervised usage, it the recreational use that kills. Marijuana (MJ) is used a lot recreationally; if people to use MJ instead of Fentanyl the OD cases would not pile up like they do today.

It's just weird logic to say "X causes more deaths than Y, Y should be legal then".

E.g. car accidents kill more people per year than marijuana.

Does that mean driving a car should become illegal, and marijuana legalized?

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marijuana-deaths-2014_n_56816...

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#32

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #22
DrBazza wrote: post #5

Sort-of-related, for Americans reading this, from a Brit, when I watch US TV programmes, the inclusion of drugs (prescription and illegal) in scripts is so matter-of-fact, it's actually shocking. Comparing like-for-like programs (police dramas, hospital dramas, thrillers), the UK version will invariably have entirely different plots. Sure the US != UK, but it's so weird. Isn't the USA the only country other than NZ t…

Does the UK have those bizarrely obtuse not-an-ad-for-prescription ads like in Canada?

I can't think of any although maybe some erectile dysfunction drugs are (don't know if they're prescription only or not). Otherwise, there's ads for cold remedies, cough medicine and analgesics. The idea of advertising prescription drugs seems bizarre to me as surely you'd want your doctor's opinion, not whatever's on daytime TV

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#34

Post by dclowd9901 »

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Your argument is intriguing but you haven’t explained why this would help keep people from dying of fentanyl overdoses?

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#35

Post by 323 »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #27
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

But that would upset the teetotalers and puritans. Also if drugs were legal, how would one look down on poor people and blame them for their situation in life on moral failings like addiction?

> But that would upset the teetotalers and puritans.

It's easy to cater to them. In the packet that legalizes all drugs you also remove all gun control laws.

So you make all drugs and all guns legal in all circumstances and at all times, just like it should be in a free country. The state should not control what you put in your mouth or veins or what you carry in your pocket.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#36

Post by paganel »

vorpalhex wrote: post #29
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

How do you feel that would lead to less deaths given that the deaths from fent are often (but not always) from an intentional dose of fent? The research here also does not support broad legalization: + https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24456133/ + https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2019/06/medical-marij... Of special note is that opiod deaths increased as legal prescribed opiods were given more freely.

This recent HN thread [1] is also related to this issue (the post comments on this [2] Economist article)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33845128

[2] https://archive.ph/fzBoE

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#37

Post by vorpalhex »

cies wrote: post #17
tiffanyh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re conflating things. Fentanyl is a Schedule II controlled substance. So while yes, it’s “legal” - it’s an extremely controlled narcotic. Said differently, it’s illegal if you’re in position of it and it wasn’t prescribed by a medical doctor. Unlike marijuana that doesn’t need a prescription where it’s allowed.

It's not about the legitimate/medical/supervised usage, it the recreational use that kills. Marijuana (MJ) is used a lot recreationally; if people to use MJ instead of Fentanyl the OD cases would not pile up like they do today.

That is not supported by the research, marijuana use seems independent from opiod deaths (neither harming nor helping).

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#38

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

Aicy wrote: post #26
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why politicians (in the UK) always seem to be scared of legalisation when there's a huge amount of tax that could be generated from it and meanwhile, criminals get all the money and taxpayers have to spend more money trying to catch those criminals.

Because it would be hugely unpopular with a mostly conservative voter base, and tax revenue is not what wins elections.

Those older Tory voters were likely having a wild time back in the sixties - they need to get a grip on reality and stop reading the Daily Heil.

Anyone that continues voting Tory after all the damage done to the UK is unlikely to be change their vote just due to drug laws being changed.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#39

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

We already tried that, it doesn't work. Hint: tobacco and alcohol deaths didn't decrease when tobacco and alcohol sales were decriminalized.

What does work is making the cost of drugs prohibitive by placing great transaction costs on the drug trade. (See: taxes and tobacco.)

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#40

Post by dfxm12 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #23
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

I don't understand why politicians (in the UK) always seem to be scared of legalisation when there's a huge amount of tax that could be generated from it and meanwhile, criminals get all the money and taxpayers have to spend more money trying to catch those criminals.

How popular is it among voters? Below a certain threshold and you'll lose votes if you approach the subject. Once it gets to a certain point, it then becomes useful as a wedge issue, and a wedge issue is only useful to talk about and not really do anything about.

That said, only 30% or so support the status quo criminalisation of marijuana. That's past due for some change.

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