Time to end the war on drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#171

Post by biturd » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 12:09 PM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #117

chimeracoder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have been clearer - I was just trying to be concise to prove a point. And I'm making the assumption that we're comparing drugs of high quality in either category (because obviously drugs that are mixed with adulterants are going to have other problems). You seem to understand what's going on, but for anybody else who's curious: Adderall isn't methamphetamine. However, the methyl group doesn't change the way…

Thanks for your explanation. I know I like knowing /how/ drugs / medical treatments actually work, and I think many of the people on here also appreciate this. Doctors, in the US at least, are a bit less than helpful when you ask about this kind of stuff, and I've had more than one actually act offended when asked about how/why what they're prescribing works. I know that in IT, if a client asks us how something works…

The curious will get labeled as doctor shoppers, then you will get nothing but an entry in their database. It's crazy, they treat the stats not the patient.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#172

Post by biturd » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 12:23 PM UTC

wildgift wrote: post #126

swombat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, sorry I downvoted you when the post was just "O". The lack of a socialised healthcare system is actually a boon in this case, since the state is basically getting rid of a large cost (funding the police work on the war on drugs) without creating another cost (since patients then have to pay for themselves). Isn't it?

There's public rehab in the US. There are also public mental health hospitals, and public hospital emergency rooms. There are also jails and prisons. Drug addicts end up in all these systems all the time, taking up space and resources. Some addicts are somewhat functional, but not enough to hold down a job. They may steal things. So the cost is borne by the community, who have to deal with stolen car stereos and brok…

AA and NA do not work. Failure rates are 95%, same as spontaneous remission. But there is an added increase in suicide of upwards of 28%.

As cliché as it seems, AA and NA are cults of indoctrination and trample our Bill of Rights as they can and often are court mandated.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#173

Post by rsheridan6 » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 1:00 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #136

chimeracoder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have been clearer - I was just trying to be concise to prove a point. And I'm making the assumption that we're comparing drugs of high quality in either category (because obviously drugs that are mixed with adulterants are going to have other problems). You seem to understand what's going on, but for anybody else who's curious: Adderall isn't methamphetamine. However, the methyl group doesn't change the way…

What's the advantage of vyvanse over dexedrine, except for renewed patent protection?

Vyvanse needs to go through the gut to be converted to its active form, which means that injecting it or crushing it and snorting it does nothing. This is intended to prevent abuse, but it does nothing extra for the user.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#174

Post by lusr » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 1:07 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #33

johntyree wrote: post #22

This is literally copy-paste from Time magazine 2009. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.ht... Excellent work, Dick.

> Excellent work, Dick. This isn't reddit. http://jacquesmattheij.com/The+Unofficial+HN+FAQ#downvoted

Richard = Dick.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#175

Post by lusr » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 1:08 PM UTC

opendomain wrote: post #146

I have a feeling that the people that are promoting the end of the "war" are casual users or would like to be. Has any REAL experience with Drugs? I have - my family was ripped apart by drug abuse. Drugs alter your brain - addiction is VERY powerful. If some drugs were legal, MORE people would become addicted and crime will go up for people to feed their habits.

Your experience with drug abuse doesn't justify your opinion on how to deal with the drug abuse problem. Portugal's DATA does.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#176

Post by Alex3917 » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 1:12 PM UTC

asdkl234890 wrote: post #158

How many people under the age of baby boomers are for the war on drugs? Do any of you think we can end the war on drugs before enough of the baby boomers are... pardon me... dead?

The boomers are 50/50 for legalizing marijuana, it's the older generation that's the problem. It should be legal by 2022-2024 thanks to the boomers actually.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#177

Post by paulhauggis » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 2:20 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #105

mkr-hn wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

The irony of the community down voting this is fantastic!

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#178

Post by paulhauggis » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 2:33 PM UTC

_gd3l wrote: post #140

paulhauggis wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I agree wholeheartedly. Viewing drug usage as a medical problem and funding free treatment seems to be a no brainer. That pesky problem seems to go back to Congress." How is drug usage a "medical" problem? It's a personal choice. Most addicts aren't born addicted and they make the choice to pick up that first joint. I don't want to make it easier to be a drug addict in this country. Especially at my expense.

> How is drug usage a "medical" problem? Because it's the ingestion of mind-altering substances to achieve a certain goal. Most often this goal is inebriation for entertainment purposes, some times (especially in indigenous cultures) it's a spiritual goal. > It's a personal choice. Sure, many times it is. But I think more often than you'd realize it's less of a choice and more of a predisposition. I mean, if some peo…

"Because it's the ingestion of mind-altering substances to achieve a certain goal. Most often this goal is inebriation for entertainment purposes, some times (especially in indigenous cultures) it's a spiritual goal."

A "medical" problem to me is having cancer or a disease. Something you can't stop. If you don't ever ingest illegal drugs, you will never becom an addict of them (funny how that works).

" I mean, if some people are born with allergies or giant feet or different colored eyes, would it be too crazy to assume that some people are more easily addicted to drugs?"

Some people have addictive personalities. But some drugs actually change brain chemistry and are physically addictive.

"Just real quick, I think you mean joint as in marijuana joint. Marijuana is completely non-addictive physically, in any circumstance. Nor does it kill brain cells, etc. These are remnants of the hilarious Reefer Madness nonsense that the US unfortunately took part in."

ugh. I never said it was physically addictive. However, I will just let you keep believing it doesn't kill brain cells . I know otherwise.

"Then make drugs further decriminalized. Marijuana, for example, is not a gateway drug. Drug dealers are gateway drugs."

As long as we never have universal health care or addicts never get free treatment. This is my problem: you not only want drugs legalized, but you want me to pay for your medical expenses in taxes (but first deny that it causes any health problems).

"Every drug dealer that I know, except one, doesn't just deal pot."

You sure seem to know a lot of drug dealers. It's interesting to me because almost everyone I know that smokes pot falls in love with it. It becomes almost like their girlfriend. They talk about it all the time and defend it to the death.

You can't tell me that this doesn't have some effect on the brain.

"They've got cocaine, saliva, mushrooms, ecstasy, et cetera et cetera. So instead of being able to just go to a safe environment and get some harmless little green stuff, many drug laws force benign drug-users to be around shady, scummy people with lots of other shady, scummy drugs on them."

I wish the people on the left were as interested in less control control and less taxes as they are about drug usage.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#179

Post by foxit » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 2:36 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #177

paulhauggis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

The irony of the community down voting this is fantastic!

What's ironic about it? You posted incorrect information and were accordingly downvoted.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#180

Post by paulhauggis » Tue, Dec 27, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #153

paulhauggis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

Does the real data from Portugal mean nothing to you? Every drug stat is down after legalizing and treating. I really don't understand why people are so willing to punish others (and pay dearly to do it), but not to help, even if it is cheaper and more efficacious.

Did you read what I said? The drug stats are not down. It's created more addicts.

Why? Because when drugs are legalized/decriminalized, more people are willing to try it (which makes sense).

"I really don't understand why people are so willing to punish others"

Sorry, but drugs are a personal choice. If you can't accept the consequences that come along with it, you shouldn't be ingesting mind-altering or addictive drugs.

It's just that simple. I'm not even taking about putting people in jail or having harsher drug laws, just not having my tax dollars pay for their medical expenses.