Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Time to end the war on drugs

virgin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 217 posts

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#151

Post by akg1 »

knieveltech wrote: post #148
seanp2k2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. I think that you're at least partially right, but I also think it has a lot to do with the Christian values that affect our laws way more than they should (see also: abortion laws in USA.) >Its purpose it to line the pockets of the politicians who support it. I would say that it's more for the large pharmaceutical companies. Politicians are cheap these days, and the profits from the "war on drugs" are orders o…

I think both of you are on the right track but may be mistaken regarding who stands to profit the most from continued prohibition. Both local law enforcement and the for-profit companies behind our jails profit enormously from the US having the highest percentage of population incarcerated of any first world country. The majority of individuals currently doing time are in for drug-related crimes.

> US having the highest percentage of population incarcerated of any first world country.

We have the highest incarceration rate, full stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat...

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#152

Post by randomdata »

opendomain wrote: post #146

I have a feeling that the people that are promoting the end of the "war" are casual users or would like to be. Has any REAL experience with Drugs? I have - my family was ripped apart by drug abuse. Drugs alter your brain - addiction is VERY powerful. If some drugs were legal, MORE people would become addicted and crime will go up for people to feed their habits.

"If some drugs were legal, MORE people would become addicted"

Here in Canada, the official usage rates for cannabis and tobacco are nearly the same. The latter being a legal substance. The laws aren't stopping anyone who is interested in trying the drug. Those who are not interested in trying it, still won't be interested if the laws change.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#153

Post by SoftwareMaven »

paulhauggis wrote: post #105
mkr-hn wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

Does the real data from Portugal mean nothing to you? Every drug stat is down after legalizing and treating.

I really don't understand why people are so willing to punish others (and pay dearly to do it), but not to help, even if it is cheaper and more efficacious.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#154

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

sneak wrote: post #142
seanp2k2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Ann Arbor, Michigan here, where the STATE law says that possession is illegal, but locally it's a misdemeanour for non-medical and $25-100 fine. REF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_laws_in_Ann_Arbor,_Mi... If it's for medical use and you're all registered as a patient, it's now technically legal under local and state laws, but illegal under federal law. TL;DR the laws are a mess and if the FBI catches yo…

Does that indeed override the state laws? Many states have laws against things that are not federally prohibited, and legal in other states that do not prohibit those things. I think you may be incorrect.

States can be more restrictive but they cannot be less restrictive. Thus if the nation declares that marijuana is illegal a state cannot declare that it is legal (see the medical marijuana raids in California). And if the nation declares that alcohol is legal then a state can make it illegal within that state.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#155

Post by refurb »

swah wrote: post #8

I don't understand how a world where making/selling something is a crime but consuming is not could work.

The gov't already does this with off-label promotion of prescription drugs. A doctor is allowed to prescribe whatever they want for a patient, but pharma companies can't promote a drug for a condition that the FDA hasn't approved it for.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#156

Post by ams6110 »

bostonvaulter2 wrote: post #154
sneak wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that indeed override the state laws? Many states have laws against things that are not federally prohibited, and legal in other states that do not prohibit those things. I think you may be incorrect.

States can be more restrictive but they cannot be less restrictive. Thus if the nation declares that marijuana is illegal a state cannot declare that it is legal (see the medical marijuana raids in California). And if the nation declares that alcohol is legal then a state can make it illegal within that state.

And this is the opposite of what the founders would have wanted, I'd guess. The constitution mandates that powers not specifically granted to the federal government are reserved by the states. I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm pretty sure the federal authority to regulate drugs was "found" in the interstate commerce clause as part of the food and drug reforms in the early 1900s. At the time, there were definitely problems but like all big government intervention the cure itself is now out of control and we now have an agency (FDA) that has its hands in about 1/4 of the GDP.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#157

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

sneak wrote: post #141
pedrocarvalho wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it isn't. In Portugal, the healthcare system is free.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Medical care in the European Union (in general) is free. Money is recouped by higher taxation on all people, as if they bought into a country-wide policy.

I think we well understand what is meant by "free". It is usually contrasted by the US system in which emergency care is 'free' if you have no garnishable income or property to take.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#159

Post by snowmaker »

asdkl234890 wrote: post #158

How many people under the age of baby boomers are for the war on drugs? Do any of you think we can end the war on drugs before enough of the baby boomers are... pardon me... dead?

You might be surprised by how much the current generation of twenty- and thirty-somethings looks like the baby boomers politically by the time they reach that age. Getting married, getting older, and having children tends to change one's political opinions in predictable ways, and this is one of them.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#160

Post by snowmaker »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #34
Mz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that prostitution is de facto largely treated this way in the U.S. In most cases, they don't arrest the johns or pimps but they do arrest the prostitutes. Technically, both are illegal but enforcement has a tendency to be one-sided. From what I gather, proving a pimp has committed a crime is much harder than proving a prostitute has and although the clients are also breaking the law in most U.S. states…

I've always thought of that as backwards. In most cases, a prostitute is forced to work as slave labor by the controlling pimp. That makes her the victim. Without customers to pull money in (the Johns), she would make no income for her pimp. Once one instead follows the money, we realize that we can starve this trade by punishing the ones who have money (the Johns) and can dissuade prostitutes by making their somewha…

Your statement on prostitution is completely false, or at best very outdated. While it's a tangent to the main discussion, I feel obligated to correct it for the purpose of other people reading the comments.

The vast majority of prostitutes in the USA and similar countries are choosing the occupation of their own free will because it pays far better than alternatives. And a large fraction are now entirely independent, with no pimp or other structure involved. The "prostitutes are sex slaves" line is a myth propagated by organizations who would like you to believe this.

Post reply on HN