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Time to end the war on drugs

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Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#21

Post by seagreen »

swombat wrote: post #7
torrenegra wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let major tobacco companies expect that if drugs were legalized, they could expand their business. They may start lobbing in favor of legalization right away.

That's just wishful thinking, though. What can sane, enterprising people do ?

Ignore politics and start in the media and academia. Then pour decades of propaganda down on the issue and eventually your opponents will give way.

This strategy takes a long time, but there's empirical evidence that it actually works.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#23

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

swombat wrote: post #11
TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #5

One has to remember that Portugal did not completely legalize drugs. Possession of small amounts and usage were legalized. Dealing is still a big crime there, due to the citizens of Portugal not wanting to be akin the worlds drug den. The different viewpoint of legalizing usage was that it is a medical problem, and not a evil crime. Even that said, Portugal also made their problems less severe by bringing them out in…

Hey, sorry I downvoted you when the post was just "O". The lack of a socialised healthcare system is actually a boon in this case, since the state is basically getting rid of a large cost (funding the police work on the war on drugs) without creating another cost (since patients then have to pay for themselves). Isn't it?

I'm not sure. What I do know is that from reading many stories about the "War on Drugs" that many dubious laws and judgments were made to separate people from their property and/or their livelihood.

We would also have a sizable chunk of the DEA disbanded (we wouldn't need them). We can add that to reduction of police forces around the US.

Where I am unsure is how the dependency of money works within the state system of the drug trade. I have a sinking feeling that there is probably the same amount or money moving around in the "War on Drugs" as there is in the drug trade in the US. My question then is, "What happens if we try to manipulate or disband this system?"

ObAside: I've seen this specific iPod bug before. When I click on an edit window, it will flash the keyboard up then down. And any sort of button click on the page submits the form. The only way I've seen to 'fix' it is to close and open the offending tab.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#24

Post by tete »

Another thing that will at least take a very long time to finally happen. I don't take drugs, not even legal ones, but it's logical.

Most people seem to start taking drugs, because others do it and simply because it's cool or rebellious (in fact I smoked for a while in my childhood because of that). I think most people wouldn't start and get hooked, if it was legal. To most people it's ugly the first time anyways.

Hmm, when making things illegal leads to consumption then we should maybe make vegetables and stuff illegal. :D

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#25

Post by Mz »

swah wrote: post #8

I don't understand how a world where making/selling something is a crime but consuming is not could work.

It seems to me that prostitution is de facto largely treated this way in the U.S. In most cases, they don't arrest the johns or pimps but they do arrest the prostitutes. Technically, both are illegal but enforcement has a tendency to be one-sided. From what I gather, proving a pimp has committed a crime is much harder than proving a prostitute has and although the clients are also breaking the law in most U.S. states, they tend to get arrested a great deal less than the prostitutes. (Just what I've read over the years. No source to cite, no stats to back it up. Sorry.)

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#26

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

dvanduzer wrote: post #19
TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #5

One has to remember that Portugal did not completely legalize drugs. Possession of small amounts and usage were legalized. Dealing is still a big crime there, due to the citizens of Portugal not wanting to be akin the worlds drug den. The different viewpoint of legalizing usage was that it is a medical problem, and not a evil crime. Even that said, Portugal also made their problems less severe by bringing them out in…

The bureaucratic issues aside, it does seem, on the surface, absurd that we can't just view the money spent fighting the War on Drugs as part of a big bucket that we could instead just pour all over medical treatment. Tossing the bureaucratic issues aside seems the larger problem.

I agree wholeheartedly. Viewing drug usage as a medical problem and funding free treatment seems to be a no brainer. That pesky problem seems to go back to Congress.

I can just imagine the headlines: "Senator Blabla wants to release druggies who solicit behind YOUR KIDS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!!!!" Citizens already appear to want harsher and harsher punishments for crimes.

And then is the open question about what we do with the whole lot of people who work on the governments side. It appears to me in the medium term a fat job loss across the US. Especially in this economy, that kind of job loss, even if countered by a hiring of social workers, still looks nasty.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#28

Post by JanezStupar »

tokenadult wrote: post #20

A friend shared this link on Facebook, and I read through the article. I was very interested to note that Richard Branson bases much of his argument on the reduction in drug use in Portugal since the policy change decriminalizing possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use and referring users to medical treatment. Is this the societal consensus in other countries? Are most advocates of ending "the war on dr…

I believe that it is pretty common and the leading argument.

True motive may be way different, but the convenient fact is that the stated goals of proponents of war on drugs are more efficiently achieved by decriminalization.

To my knowledge pretty much all of the fears that are voiced in opposition to decriminalization have been shown to be unfounded in practice.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#29

Post by torrenegra »

The Colombian president, Juan Manuel Santos (also an entrepreneur), recently called for the legalization of many drugs, including cocaine: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/13/colombia-juan-sa...

I'm a NYC-based, Colombian entrepreneur. My step-brother died piloting a Black Hawk helicopter in Colombia that crashed while executing an anti-narcotics operation. The helicopter was "donated" by the US as part of "Plan Colombia" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Colombia ). Plan Colombia is a periodic subsidy sent by the US to Colombia to help with the war on drugs. The program is lobbied in part by Sikorsky and Monsanto. The subsidy includes some cash, but it also comes in the form of helicopters (built by Sikorsky), glyphosate (banned in the US but used in Colombia to destroy coca plantations), and weapons.

You can say that the "war on drugs" allowed my brother to realize his dream (flying a helicopter), but it also killed him.

I may be emotionally charged with the topic and may not exercise good reason about it, but I've seen enough to realize that the "war on drugs" is just a big mess that won't be won, no matter what.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#30

Post by zotz »

electromagnetic wrote: post #3
swombat wrote: post #2

Even coming from a respectable industry leader like Richard Branson, this will almost certainly be ignored. Here's an interesting question: what would end the war on drugs? Is it something that can be made to happen by sane, enterprising individuals?

Get a company like Monsanto interested in the commercial cultivation of marijuana and it'll be legal within the day.

Companies such as Monsanto and DuPont (not to mention a host of others) are among the ones that were glad to see hemp made illegal back in the 1930's.

Any hemp-based economy is a threat to centralized industrial concerns. With the invention of the hemp decorticator in the 1910's (the cotton gin of hemp) by George Schlichten, hemp's potential as an industrial crop to replace petroleum was unlocked.

Large, centralized industries have no interest in seeing their monopoly threatened.

Remember, hemp is illegal, not just marijuana.

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