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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#491

Post by nobodyandproud »

seattle_spring wrote: post #413
SoftTalker wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very senior/wealthy people can get away with whatever they want. It's why Zuckerberg can look like a total slob at Facebook (notice he still wore a suit while testifying to Congress though). If a senior executive wore a $200 suit to work, nobody would say a word.

> Zuckerberg can look like a total slob at Facebook Huh, custom tshirts and well fitting jeans counts as "looking like a total slob" now? Fwiw I'd rather work with / for someone that dresses like that over formal any day of the week.

Yes.

I like t-shirts and jeans and never want to go back to suits and ties but..

When I went to Japan a decade ago, I realized just how informal and slovenly American working attire had become.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#492

Post by Chilko »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #154
nradov wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Toyota Land Cruiser has been a popular car in certain upper-class circles. At $87k it's fairly expensive, but it doesn't look expensive.

However, the Land Cruiser will be passed down for many generations, so the amortized cost of a Land Cruiser is not expensive. Also, Land Cruiser has apparently been discontinued.

> Also, Land Cruiser has apparently been discontinued

For those not from the US like myself, this is only the case in the US. I'm sure we'll still get plenty down under.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#493

Post by dsfyu404ed »

projectazorian wrote: post #478
tptacek wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is this place where showing up in a Porsche 911 outs you as a car dilettante because you didn't shell out an extra $90k for the Maserati? I think the status symbols there might be reversed.

If anything it's driving the Maserati that outs someone as a dilletante. Possibly the worst value for money of any luxury car brand.

This is the kind of thing people who see cars as appliances go 55 in the left lane in a Prius (or maybe if you're a homeowner you've traded up to a Tacoma) say.

People buying "100k+ rich man's toy" cars don't care about value for money the way you or I do.

Edit: appeasing nit pickers

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#494

Post by dsfyu404ed »

vineyardmike wrote: post #451
cafard wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe by their 40s-60s they have lost all interest in what 25yos, tee-shirted or not, think about their attire. They have seen the fashion wheel spin more than once, and are no longer compelled by it. (Source: upper 60s, go into the office mostly because a) it's not far, b) my office setup is a bit better, c) I don't want to wake my wife with Zoom calls. I do have some tailored shirts but seldom wear them.)

> maybe by their 40s-60s they have lost all interest in what 25yos Its not about the fashion, its about looking put together. Its signaling that you care. Of course, there's the article which says that people who made it can stop signaling, so maybe that's you.

You have little nothing to offer people who have been in the field decades more than you. They don't care what signal they're broadcasting to you.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#495

Post by jdhzzz »

steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

This makes me think of Adam Carolla's Rich Man-Poor Man. E.g. "Made love next to a fountain." "Doesn't drive himself to work." Many examples on Twitter and Reddit.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#496

Post by nobodyandproud »

vineyardmike wrote: post #427
pclmulqdq wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a bit of an idea now that you should be expressing yourself with your money, not expressing society's ideas. Around cars and watches, this creates a little bit of a "dead zone" for prestigious professionals. For example, if you aren't showing up in a $200k Maserati, your car had better be under $50k (maybe $70k with inflation). Only posers who aren't really into cars but want to show off their wealth…

> Clothing seems to be the same at many companies: you had better wear tailored suits and shirts or be less dressy than "business casual." There’s a running joke in my circle about the “dad professional class”. People who are older (40-60s) and go to the office in a remote-work-accepting world mostly because they seem to want to leave their family at home. They all dress like shit in ill-fitting clothes, but because…

> There’s a running joke in my circle about the “dad professional class”. People who are older (40-60s)

I fit this demographic.

> and go to the office in a remote-work-accepting world mostly because they seem to want to leave their family at home.

There’s some truth to this, though I’ve avoiding coming in. It’s not about escaping the family but just a change of scenery.

> They all dress like shit in ill-fitting clothes, but because they’re older than the “office casual” dress code, they tend to dress in overly professional button downs and slacks.

I have a reasonable taste in fashion, but my cost-conscious self doesn’t allow it.

Age also forces a more conservative style and colors; and it says I’m sacrificing for the kids.

> “The business attire that look out of place in tech next to a 25yo in a tee shirt.

Business attire is like a uniform. You don’t need to spend a lot to look presentable.

> They don’t seem to know people don’t always take them seriously,

Is this a bad thing?

> and think “they’re not here to [change the world/be the best/rise in the ranks/etc], they’re here to avoid their wife and collect a salary”.

Rise in the ranks?

There’s nothing wrong with working to live. You get my best for 8 to 9 hours.

We live in a world where “leadership” is valued, and everything else is devalued. For engineers, this is purgatory.

Like, it’s a huge mental and emotional burden and I’d gladly take a 1/3 paycut to be an IC; except nobody else really wants it.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#497

Post by tptacek »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #493
projectazorian wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it's driving the Maserati that outs someone as a dilletante. Possibly the worst value for money of any luxury car brand.

This is the kind of thing people who see cars as appliances go 55 in the left lane in a Prius (or maybe if you're a homeowner you've traded up to a Tacoma) say. People buying "100k+ rich man's toy" cars don't care about value for money the way you or I do. Edit: appeasing nit pickers

People who see cars as appliances don't buy 911s either.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#498

Post by dsfyu404ed »

steveBK123 wrote: post #201
prpl wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One slight different is that spending on your home will generally add value to it. It may not be necessary, and you may not get a dollar-for-dollar out of it, but it’s added value nonetheless. I cook a lot, I personally would like a higher quality stove - I’ve killed one before because I (an)use the broiler a lot (it wasn’t terribly old), but I probably would do an NXR or something. maybe in the $2k. Or a used Wolf/v…

I think most people delude themselves that their big renovations added any incremental value to their home. Usually the cost was financed and thus even higher than the sticker price, all-in. Further, the holding periods are measured in a decade +/- often, so the general market moves contribute more to the sales price than whatever you'd done to the kitchen/bath. On the margin, having a move-in ready home that's been…

Renovations basically never add value unless you check more checkboxes or add on-paper features. Cramming a shower stall into a half bath, adding a dishwasher where there wasn't one, finishing an attic/basement, that kind of stuff.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#499

Post by projectazorian »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #493
projectazorian wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it's driving the Maserati that outs someone as a dilletante. Possibly the worst value for money of any luxury car brand.

This is the kind of thing people who see cars as appliances go 55 in the left lane in a Prius (or maybe if you're a homeowner you've traded up to a Tacoma) say. People buying "100k+ rich man's toy" cars don't care about value for money the way you or I do. Edit: appeasing nit pickers

Maseratis aren’t exotic cars though, that’s the thing. They’re mediocre luxury cars marketed as exotic cars. You can get a new Maserati for less than a new BMW M3. Not exactly exotic car territory.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#500

Post by notfromhere »

themacguffinman wrote: post #374
rayiner wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling" when they do things, they are just doing things. This constant meta game mostly exists in the minds of this iamverysmart crowd I was telling my dad that we were going to try a new restaurant. "They churn their own butter," I pointed out excitedly. And my dad--who grew up in a village in Bangladesh--is like "why would they churn their own butter? You can buy it in…

That's an odd take on the butter scenario. The obvious answer to your dad's question is "because although churning your own butter is not necessary, it can make a fresher and more interesting-tasting product than mass produced butter you buy at a store". When I look for restaurants that churn their own butter, I'm not looking to show off my status as someone who can afford unnecessary labor, I am actually "just doing…

It's both.

To that dad, making your own butter was not a cultural signal showing your dedication to getting good flavor from butter, it just meant you were poor. If you could buy butter at the store, you were rich.

As someone who grew up in a second world country, things like making your own butter or having your own chickens were just a sign of poverty, not a signal of distinct taste.

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