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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#371

Post by teg4n_ »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #283
mike_hearn wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holmes yes, so obviously so that people remarked on it. Zuckerberg? The archetype of Steve Jobs' dress code is the black turtleneck and jeans. Zuck is famous for his consistent grey t-shirt and jeans, or sometimes hoodies.

> his consistent grey t-shirt and jeans I’m pretty sure they were talking about that consistency. The story that I have heard, is that Jobs wore the same thing, every day, so his mind wouldn’t be “bogged down,” with minutia, like what to wear. I think some folks also have superstitions about dress.

If I were that rich I would just pay someone to learn what kind of outfits I like and pick out my clothes for me.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#372

Post by jakear »

aix1 wrote: post #180
lotsofpulp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the Land Cruiser will be passed down for many generations, so the amortized cost of a Land Cruiser is not expensive. Also, Land Cruiser has apparently been discontinued.

> the Land Cruiser will be passed down for many generations Wait, what sort of longevity are we taking about? 15 years? 20? I don't think we humans can reproduce quickly enough for that to span "many generations". :-)

Way more. Land Cruisers can last 40+ easily. Do a craigslist search and you’ll find them in fully working condition.

I don’t think the so-called “safety features” developed in the next 20 years are as valuable as the others predict. We’re already very safe in cars, especially massive modern ones like the cruiser. If you’re driving fast/reckless enough to get killed in one today more safety features aren’t what you need.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#373

Post by meindnoch »

bradlys wrote: post #353
deanmoriarty wrote: post #259

This kind of signaling is the reason why I ended up voluntarily with no friends in my mid 30s, down from a pretty active social life in my 20s knowing hundreds of people and regularly hanging out with many dozens, mostly in the Bay Area but also in Europe, where I’m originally from. As people get older, I noticed they just can’t stop flashing how successful they are, how they can afford this or that, and suddenly eve…

Confused on your last point. Joining a good pre IPO company is generally a good idea. The difficult part is to find the good company, IMO. Look at how many were considered good but still haven’t gone public.

His friend, who just won the lottery, told him that he shouldn’t work that hard, instead he should just win the lottery, like him.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#374

Post by themacguffinman »

rayiner wrote: post #258
sanderjd wrote: post #212

> An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car. It must be so tedious to live having internalized this perspective on people. The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling" when they do things, t…

> The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling" when they do things, they are just doing things. This constant meta game mostly exists in the minds of this iamverysmart crowd I was telling my dad that we were going to try a new restaurant. "They churn their own butter," I pointed out excitedly. And my dad--who grew up in a village in Bangladesh--is like "why would they churn their own butter? You can buy it in…

That's an odd take on the butter scenario. The obvious answer to your dad's question is "because although churning your own butter is not necessary, it can make a fresher and more interesting-tasting product than mass produced butter you buy at a store". When I look for restaurants that churn their own butter, I'm not looking to show off my status as someone who can afford unnecessary labor, I am actually "just doing things"; I am just looking for interesting and tasty food with interesting and tasty butter, I'm not trying to cultivate an image of myself as a foodie or rich person or avoiding being mistaken for a day-laborer.

I don't know why you've re-framed it into a status signal. Did you really value churning your own butter as a pure status signal and not for the benefits of artisinal butter?

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#375

Post by mmaunder »

TrackerFF wrote: post #219
mmaunder wrote: post #101

Wealth signaling and its effects are rather depressing. People going into debt to buy a Rolex and a sports car to create the illusion of success is bad enough. Someone falling for an individual mismanaging their own finances to create a lie is quite sad. I was listening to a pop station yesterday and a song was playing that was like a top 5 of fashion brands, they way the singer kept listing them off. So I think elem…

Buying a Rolex today or for the past few years, would have actually been a pretty solid investment - it's hard to purchase a new one, because there's usually waiting lists, and most stores prioritize their VIP clients. Used market blew up around COVID, and people have made some pretty nice returns on flipping Rolex. Hell, I have a couple of co-workers that collect watches, and they mostly just store the real-deal in…

Not really. You can’t buy one at the stores - massive scarcity. And the grey market have appreciation priced in. Grey prices have dropped significantly in the past few months. The crypto bubble in watches has burst.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#376

Post by WalterBright »

steveBK123 wrote: post #134
closeparen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renovation isn’t the hobby here, they’re not doing it themselves. But a passion for cooking justifies the high end kitchen. An interest in architecture and design justifies bringing good examples of it home.

Sure, if you have the money and interest, spend it. But people often conflate "investment" & consumption when its anything related to home renovation. I'd still argue these types of "hobbies" are 90% consumption, and for most of the people I know.. usually financed with loans. No one I know with a $100k kitchen cooks any better than my poor immigrant grandmother did.

Think of it like a machine shop. Expensive tools work way, way better than cheap ones.

I also have a restaurant grade toaster. It costs quite a bit more than the usual toasters do. But the usual ones would always break after a year or two. The restaurant toaster makes better toast, and has worked fine for 25 years now. It was actually cheaper to get the restaurant grade one over the long haul.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#377

Post by WalterBright »

steveBK123 wrote: post #335
tbrownaw wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * The last round of job searching doing zoom interviews, I wore my hoodie for half the calls. If I had done this while job searching out of college, during my internship, or at my first job.. I would not be where I am today.* That's not just status, it's got change over time mixed in.

It's partially status in that, I'm advanced enough in my career that I don't really care to work anywhere that would ding me in a zoom interview over my outfit. Earlier in my career I could not have afforded to be so picky. One of the starkest power dynamics in dress code I've observed is in non-tech firms that have large tech orgs to support the revenue generating roles. While there were official dress codes that te…

> I don't really care to work anywhere that would ding me in a zoom interview over my outfit

I've often found that people who say (and believe) that they don't ding people who dress poorly, do ding people who dress poorly.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#378

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

> re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon.

always has been moon meme.

unless you're neveaux rich or stupid or both it is in your absolute interest not to show what you have. driving a Prius used to be that signal but today it has shifted. My direct boss was a Schenker heir (the freight forwarding company) and the only way he showed off is by living in a rental house (albeit manged by his management company so he essentially paid rent to himself), drove a Nissan, didn't spend unless you took a closer look (art purchases for his 4th wife) didn't brag with fancy dinners in Michelin star places (but certainly bragged to his wife about putting her on the map with her silly paintings as a wannabe artist - lol "Sex rules everything around me C.R.E.A.M get the money").

Only lower ranks criminals and new-rich idiots show what they have. Everyone else has learned the lesson: if you show it (the plebs and the IRS), they'll come for you.

Also all the people who're truly rich do NOT play by the same rules as the rest of you. YOU decide where, and how much tax you pay, if you have the cash to pay lawyers and accountants to insulate you from the Plebs.

The US is the biggest tax[1] haven in the world today forget the Hollywood propaganda about Cayman or Panama - only idiot cartels and Victor Bout use these jurisdictions but not the white collar crime lords ...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#379

Post by rosnd »

maigret wrote: post #356
bri3d wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The search term you want is just "Replica." RWI, RWG, RepTime on Reddit, and other private forums will analyze the quality and details of these clones in ridiculous detail. They also have reviews of each reseller and each factory. I don't even own any fake watches at this point and I've found these forums highly addictive/interesting - honestly, the average skill/knowledge level is quite high compared to most "watch…

Thanks for the hints. About the replicas: Yes but usually you’ll find a few challenges with those. First, pure replicas are illegal, so what you can find legally are called hommages with another logo. That doesn’t make them worst by itself, but here are the drawbacks: First the maintenance. What is the probability those watches will still be serviceable in 50 years? I own a watch that’s more than 50 years and wear it…

>First the maintenance. What is the probability those watches will still be serviceable in 50 years

Extremely high, given that they tend to run on clones of incredibly popular movements like the ETA2824.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#380

Post by themacguffinman »

bulbosaur123 wrote: post #28

The poorer you are, the more you are interested in appearing rich. Higher EV in that play allowing increased chances to mingle with rich class. The richer you are, the more you are interested in appearing humble. Higher EV in signalling "money speaks, wealth whispers" message and appearing "down-to-earth" to win people over. Very often it pays to do the opposite of what is expected from you.

If the actually rich people are dressing down-to-earth, why would you dress fancily to appear rich? Surely you want to also dress down-to-earth so you appear like the rich people do.
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