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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#341

Post by kelnos »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #334
yourapostasy wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas I could excuse the drawbacks you cited and the cost if they were the Framework laptop of the automotive world. But at those price points, and a repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill”, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell I’ll buy a Tesla.

> repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill” I have a couple of old Range Rovers. There are very few things you can't fix with a half-inch spanner and a hammer, and those you can fix with a 7/16th spanner and a bit of sticky tape. They run on propane, so they get cheap tax and can be registered as Low Emission Vehicles, which is pretty hilarious fo…

> They run on propane

How does fueling work? Perhaps I just haven't noticed (because I have to reason to), but I have never seen a fueling station advertise propane, outside of tanks for grilling and similar.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#342

Post by dagw »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #311
mozman wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a $400 fake rolex. Aside from the glass not being sapphire you cannot tell the difference visually

Is the escapement running at the same rate? A big part of the "rolex" appearance that is very hard to copy is the 8 ticks per second that the second hand goes through. I have seen very high quality Rolex copies before that don't do that, and are instantly recognizable as a fake to people who know a little bit about watches.

Is the escapement running at the same rate?

Absolutely. Modern fake Rolexes can only be told apart from a real one by an expert examining it with a loupe. And 8 tick pr second isn't that hard to replicate. Several ETA and Sellita calibers do it as well.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#343

Post by nostrademons »

ejb999 wrote: post #310
blagie wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing something for pure status signalling is considered crass. Expensive hobbies are not. I think they should be, but they're not.

when I had my last kitchen remodel done (a modest one,but very nice), the builder that did it said with all his clients there is an inverse relationship between how much people spend on their kitchen and appliances, and how much cooking they do - i.e. the people who spend the most, actually do the least cooking, and vice-versa. In my own limited experience, I tend to agree. I'll take an awesome cook (my spouse in thi…

I was appliance shopping recently and it seems like the most expensive appliances are often not the best. If you just want to cook, you're usually better off with a good LG or GE oven than with a Viking, which test notoriously poorly. Same with many consumer products - a Honda or Toyota will be more reliable with more convenience features than a BMW or Rolls Royce; a Chicco or Britax carseat is often safer, more comfortable, and more convenient than a Peg Perego; a Samsung or Apple smartwatch has a lot more features than a Rolex. A good rule of thumb I've had for getting good consumer products is to buy the high end of the mass market; don't skimp on budget items, but also don't buy products that are priced so the average person can't afford them.

Makes sense economically. Mass market manufacturers can amortize their R&D and quality control over many more units than luxury brands. The point of the luxury brand is explicitly countersignaling, showing that you can afford to spend more money on an inferior product.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#344

Post by bradlys »

jhrmnn wrote: post #230
cma wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about riding a $10,000 bike to work?

Are there 10k commute bikes? I doubt people take 10k pro road bikes to work

Usually closer to $5k but yes. I had coworkers who did this all the time.

To be fair - these guys love riding. So, ride what you enjoy.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#345

Post by kelnos »

steveBK123 wrote: post #340
logifail wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> outside fairly basic [...] vehicles in their base trim without options Nothing wrong with basic vehicles "in their base trim without options", we have two parked outside the house right now, and the vehicle we owned before them was similar.

Agreed. I am only trying to illustrate that the line between luxury/excess in autos has shifted substantially in the last few years partially inflation driven and partially cheap credit / long loan terms driven. The universe of under-$30k cars is now quite limited whereas 5 years ago, one could possibly describe $30k+ as being luxury.

Hell, somehow my brain is still stuck in the 90s, where $30k would get you a very nice car indeed. I was a teenager then, so perhaps I'm anchored there because it's when I first started getting interested in things like that, and first started driving. (Gas was also 92 cents per gallon for a bit while I was in high school, oof.)

My family also always only bought used cars (and I continued this practice), so I guess that further skewed my conception of car cost downward. I only just bought my first new car recently, and I still haven't really adjusted to the reality of both what current prices are like, and how much more expensive a new car is.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#347

Post by steveBK123 »

ejb999 wrote: post #310
blagie wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing something for pure status signalling is considered crass. Expensive hobbies are not. I think they should be, but they're not.

when I had my last kitchen remodel done (a modest one,but very nice), the builder that did it said with all his clients there is an inverse relationship between how much people spend on their kitchen and appliances, and how much cooking they do - i.e. the people who spend the most, actually do the least cooking, and vice-versa. In my own limited experience, I tend to agree. I'll take an awesome cook (my spouse in thi…

Yes, many of the more expensive finishes are extremely cosmetic and have negative utility.

Stone backsplashes require frequent maintenance and special chemicals. If you don't stay on top of it, they are basically impossible to keep looking clean.

A lot of newer kitchens have wooden floors, which is insane.

I've seen kitchens with thin coated bright shiny copper/brass handles on everything which immediately tarnish and can never be maintained in new looking shape.

A lot of modern gas ranges are fairly hard to clean with lots of parts you have to remove, while a solid middle class electric glass countertop one is zero effort.

I once rented a place where the guy had wooden edges on the kitchen counters which of course aged poorly, plus a porcelain kitchen sink which immediately broke any glass wear that dropped even a couple inches while cleaning.. and was impossible to keep clean looking.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#348

Post by kevinventullo »

onetimeusename wrote: post #290
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

Rolex hatred seems like it is about expressing contempt towards the previous establishment. Presidents used to wear them (still do actually) but it's not uncommon to see very rich politicians wearing very cheap watches probably deliberately. Same goes for suit wearing. I think pg wrote an article on his blog about how suit wearing was for people who thought like conformists and obviously being a conformist was not fo…

I’ve never understood where this meme came from of hoodie culture having some kind of disdain for suits. I enjoy a nice suit when the time calls for it! Say, a wedding or a holiday party.

The reason I prefer a hoodie to suit on a daily basis is that putting on a suit is kind of arduous and owning 20 well-fitting suits gets expensive. It has nothing to do with signaling or whatever. Hoodies are far more practical and comfortable! They’re a continuation of what I wore in high school and college, though sadly the skateboard logos have been replaced by tech company logos.

Anyway, if you want to wear a suit, that’s fine, just don’t expect it from me.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#349

Post by bradlys »

ricardobayes wrote: post #142
mmaunder wrote: post #101

Wealth signaling and its effects are rather depressing. People going into debt to buy a Rolex and a sports car to create the illusion of success is bad enough. Someone falling for an individual mismanaging their own finances to create a lie is quite sad. I was listening to a pop station yesterday and a song was playing that was like a top 5 of fashion brands, they way the singer kept listing them off. So I think elem…

I saw this greatly affecting Eastern European youth, who have mostly no chance of ever wearing Balenciaga or LV. But they get this image blasted 24/7 on Instagram, so they are stuck forever in a sad feedback loop.

Good thing that Turkey has plenty of imitation goods for cheap.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#350

Post by possiblydrunk »

A key point in the article:

>"...Mild success can be explainable by skills and labor. Wild success is attributable to variance.”

>Hard work increases the likelihood of luck finding you, and hard work also prepares you for when it does.

You can't reliably produce luck, even by imitating people that are "lucky"; all you can do is increase the likelihood that you might capitalize on luck.

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