Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal • Hacker News Board

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#211

Post by taeric » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

cracrecry wrote: post #120

steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

>the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. There was a time, not that long time ago in which good clocks were expensive and expending 2ks on a good clock was similar to expending 2k on a laptop today, a functional, reasonable decision. My uncle earned a much more expensive Rolex than 2k in a Golf tournament and wearing it nobody believed it was genuine, even a watchmaker c…

I'm going to make the assertion that personal clocks were basically never with that much. They were as functionally useful as a gold bracelet for the best majority of owners.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#212

Post by sanderjd » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

> An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car.

It must be so tedious to live having internalized this perspective on people. The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling" when they do things, they are just doing things. This constant meta game mostly exists in the minds of this iamverysmart crowd. Most people who ride bikes to work just like to ride bikes and find it to be a convenient way to get to work, they aren't giving a single thought to how it plays in some status game that nobody else they interact with is thinking about either.

I find this whole genre incredibly unrelatable.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#213

Post by kfarr » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #27

Maybe a bit OT: The other day I read an interview with a local guy in his 20s that struck gold with crypto, he'd invest something like $20k, and turned it into $40M. He basically went all in on one alt-coin before the marked exploded late last year, and the coin went up 2000x. When asked about it, he of course came up with a narrative that this wasn't just dumb luck. He had had worked hard for those $20k, and he had…

Perfect example of fundamental attribution error

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#214

Post by angled » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #154

nradov wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Toyota Land Cruiser has been a popular car in certain upper-class circles. At $87k it's fairly expensive, but it doesn't look expensive.

However, the Land Cruiser will be passed down for many generations, so the amortized cost of a Land Cruiser is not expensive. Also, Land Cruiser has apparently been discontinued.

Not in Australia?

But then you do get articles like https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/brisbane-accou...

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#215

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #105

blagie wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing something for pure status signalling is considered crass. Expensive hobbies are not. I think they should be, but they're not.

Exactly. To me, a $500k unnecessary renovation throws more money away than a $70k vs $40k car. At least with the car you are likely getting safety features and extensive sensor suites for driver assist for the money, that have tangible impact on your driving experience. Or Spending 5-10x on a $10k appliance where a $1-2k one would do. These people tend to get the whole set, so it's a good $30-40k worth of kitchen app…

500k or 500m in renovations will increase the value of the property. A car is worth 20% less the day you drive it off of the lot and keeps losing value. Having freezer space can save you thousands of dollars in food.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#216

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #174

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #145

> In contrast, children will copy every single action, including the unnecessary ones. The example that immediately springs to mind, in the tech industry, is the "Steve Jobs Asshole" archetype. Steve Jobs was a notorious manager, in that he made heavy-duty demands, did not suffer fools, and was blunt to the point of abusive. But he was also able to filter for talent, cultivate it, and encourage excellence. He wasn't…

There's no excuse to tolerate bad behavior. It's like an abusive relationship. When such a situation happens, you should start thinking of an exit plan ASAP.

[deleted]

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#217

Post by booleandilemma » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

sys_64738 wrote: post #45

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #13

One of the best examples of counter-signaling was Kim Kardashian at the Met Gala. She wore a black dress that covered her from head to toe, including her face. It was kind of a statement that “even my silhouette is famous”.

For those wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Kardashian Even after reading that I don't actually know what this woman is well-known for.

She's one of those people who's famous for being famous.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#218

Post by steveBK123 » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #210

steveBK123 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example I would contrast the following three scenarios of people in my circle. * Having professional landscapers plant grass and plants on an outdoor terrace of a penthouse apartment for $100k * Growing a large vegetable garden from seeds & seedlings, from your vacation home outside the city * Raising houseplants in your apartment windowsill All three of these people may describe themselves as having green thumbs…

I am into collecting slightly obsolete audio gear, I've spent maybe $600 on the hobby in the last six months. I know some people would think $120 is a lot for a minidisc player since you can get a flash player for so much less. Other people would think it's a trivial amount of money. Like all these things it comes in multiple scales: back in the day there were people who would spend 50x that on audio gear (there are…

I love & miss minidiscs :-D

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#219

Post by TrackerFF » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

mmaunder wrote: post #101

Wealth signaling and its effects are rather depressing. People going into debt to buy a Rolex and a sports car to create the illusion of success is bad enough. Someone falling for an individual mismanaging their own finances to create a lie is quite sad. I was listening to a pop station yesterday and a song was playing that was like a top 5 of fashion brands, they way the singer kept listing them off. So I think elem…

Buying a Rolex today or for the past few years, would have actually been a pretty solid investment - it's hard to purchase a new one, because there's usually waiting lists, and most stores prioritize their VIP clients. Used market blew up around COVID, and people have made some pretty nice returns on flipping Rolex. Hell, I have a couple of co-workers that collect watches, and they mostly just store the real-deal in their safes, and wear high-end replicas in public.

But I get your point. Unfortunately there seems to be lots of kids in the the lower socio-economic classes that spend all their money on expensive sneakers, hoodies, and other luxury brand clothes. Spending $1k on a designer hoodie, when you make $15k / year, isn't the smartest financial decision - to put it mildly.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#220

Post by wellbehaved » Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

CyanBird wrote: post #206

wellbehaved wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Look where this got Galileo. House arrest for the rest of his life. Bad call Galileo, you should have paid better attention to social cues! /s

Well... Copernicus did take a cue, he wrote his book and ideas and only published them when he was about to die (or postmortem I don't remember/can't lookup the details rn)

The world needs more milquetoasts like Copernicus and less tall poppies like Galileo! /s