Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic • Hacker News Board

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#21

Post by nwiswell » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

When I was growing up, they counted anyone who got vaccinated against something as a "success." So if 80 percent got vaccinated for X, they bragged about that. These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices. It's a dramatic change in attitude and it's very s…

Basically every nation already uses force to deter certain forms of socially problematic behavior.

If you habitually litter, for example, you'll receive a fine. If you don't pay that fine, you're going to end up with a bench warrant. There is an implicit threat of force. Same for graffiti, smoking in public places, etc.

Vaccine uptake is not actually compulsory under threat of force, and in that sense I have trouble seeing the "dramatic change in attitude".

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#22

Post by falcolas » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

epgui wrote: post #10

barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

I'm deadly allergic to eggs, and the only flu vaccine easily available to me is made with eggs, so I don't take it. There are many other medically valid reasons to not take a vaccine. There are even some (a very small number) of people whose religious convictions are a valid reason to get an exemption. The issue is that the overwhelming majority (>99%) of people who choose not to vaccinate, do so for bad reasons, whi…

More importantly, their uninformed medical decision disproportionally hurts the minority groups you called out above.

It's not the vaccinated population who I'm concerned about, but those who have legitimate medical reasons to not take the vaccine.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#23

Post by ilyt » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

When I was growing up, they counted anyone who got vaccinated against something as a "success." So if 80 percent got vaccinated for X, they bragged about that. These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices. It's a dramatic change in attitude and it's very s…

> These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices.

Well, because most of those didn't... and so 99% of people that decided to not get vaccinated screwed over the 1% that couldn't

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#24

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

epgui wrote: post #10

barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

I'm deadly allergic to eggs, and the only flu vaccine easily available to me is made with eggs, so I don't take it. There are many other medically valid reasons to not take a vaccine. There are even some (a very small number) of people whose religious convictions are a valid reason to get an exemption. The issue is that the overwhelming majority (>99%) of people who choose not to vaccinate, do so for bad reasons, whi…

The issue is that the overwhelming majority (>99%) of people who choose not to vaccinate, do so for bad reasons, which amounts to making an uninformed medical decision, and one that adversely impacts other people in addition to themselves. These people are what the controversy is actually about.

I really don't think that's what is going on.

I used to be on an antivax list (for unrelated reasons -- I am not an antivaxxer) and these were people with serious health problems and loved ones with serious health problems who had been treated terribly by extended family, the medical system, etc. and they were desperate to be heard by someone who believed them that "This vaccine is a real and serious problem for me/my loved ones!" and the "nutters" were the only ones giving them any support.

I didn't get a proper diagnosis for my condition until my mid thirties. I was treated like a hypochondriac before that, among other things.

Not everyone is fortunate to know what their medical issue is yet. Many people who have real issues with vaccines simply don't know a good means to argue for their right to use their own best judgement, make their own medical decisions and try to take care of themselves and they turn to whatever "support" systems they can find, which aren't always a good means to achieve their ends.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#25

Post by chrsig » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

christkv wrote: post #15

Quoted post unavailable.

You get that the hospitals were being overrun by people dying of covid, right? It was to the point where emergency care wasn't available because hospitals were full.

I doubt your claim, but even then, there are plenty of other reasons why having such a high unvaccinated population is a problem.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#26

Post by ilyt » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

andlarry wrote: post #20

thot_experiment wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but like, we don't let the unlicensed drive cars either because that is you know, dangerous to other humans. Some of the reactions you're describing are extreme for sure, but the fundamental idea of refusing rights to people who don't care about the safety of others is sound and important to a working society.

Why would avoiding the covid vaccine mean someone doesn't care about the safety of others?

Coz majority of them did not get vaccine for ideological reason, not for actual medical reason (allergies/bad reactions to vaccine)

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#27

Post by alsetmusic » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

> Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements

I know that I’ve only advocated for people who are voluntarily unvaxxed, but medically eligible, face increased scrutiny. I would never suggest anything of the sort for your friend. That’d be like discriminating against someone who requires a wheelchair or cannot see.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#28

Post by falcolas » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:55 PM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #7

autokad wrote: post #2

some of the things I heard people say: "It angers me that people like this are able to vote" "why should I have to share restaurant space with someone who doesn't care about others"

I thought it was mostly an online phenomenon wherein medical professionals were entertaining the idea of refusing medical care to the unvaccinated, right up until I heard it repeated by a friend of mine who is a nurse admin.

I kinda get it: they're intentionally and knowingly hurting others (those with legitimate medical reasons they can't get the vaccine). I saw some folks who did not get vaccines (I know this because they called those of us who got vaccines "sheep" and other derogatory terms) conspicuously cough near others.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#29

Post by TrevorJ » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:55 PM UTC

adamrezich wrote: post #4

how's everyone else from the control group doing these days? things were never really that bad, discrimination-wise, here in South Dakota, but what was/is it like everywhere else? (edit: wow I thought we were, as a collective, Largely Over It now—guess that's not the case! I'm glad things aren't as bad as they are in this thread where I live! one has to wonder though: how long will this deep-seated emotion-based disc…

Two doctors told me the vaccine may not be safe for someone with my rare condition (There's a list of medications and interventions as long as my arm that I can't take because they could literally kill me).

In spite of this, neither doctor was initially willing to put their opinion on paper so I could keep my job because of the immense pressure on them to get everyone vaccinated. Thank God, the specialist I saw came back in the room with a change of heart and wrote me the letter.

Interacting with society during this whole time felt quite upsetting. It really felt as if society in general would rather see me risk dying as long as it kept them safer.

Being forced to go into my personal medical history to justify my choices was a weird experience.

I really feel for people who've had to deal with that sort of thing for longer than the brief period of time I have.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#30

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 9:56 PM UTC

barbariangrunge wrote: post #5

I have a friend who is allergic to many vaccines. A bad reaction as a kid led to him needing years of rehab. He's also high risk for Covid. He's pro-vaccine in general I guess I should add, but his doctor told him to not get the covid shots because the risk was too high Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society, due to vaccine requirements, when people like him are presumably what all…

> Whenever I mention that it's cruel to exclude people like him from society,

Your friend was at higher risk from COVID due to to their medical condition. It might be cruel to ask them to reduce their social interaction, but many medical conditions are like that. Their feelings don't change the problem or reduce the risk. It does does not seem to be completely unfounded.