It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#501

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:37 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #355

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #34

From my reading of the article (which is hard to parse not being an expert) it seems there is a German YouTuber with Tourette's who also on his YouTube shows displays non-tourette's tics. And these tics are being copied by other young people watching his shows, and being presented as Tourette's until they arrive at the clinic where these experts go "hang on this kid does not have Tourette's but does have tics similar…

It's plausible [1] [2]. I am by all accounts neurotypical (except perhaps for a touch of Aspergers) but I have an involuntary tic. Every now and then (like once or twice a week) a memory of some incredibly stupid thing that I once did -- sometimes decades ago -- will pop into my head and before I can re-establish conscious control I'll make a vocalization that sounds like a cross between a whimper and a sneeze. It's…

[deleted]

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#502

Post by the_third_wave » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:38 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #316

the_third_wave wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OTOH, i am unsure what do you mean by a statistical over-representation of GD. This is quite clear to me and I do not think gender dysphoria - which is a DSM-5 diagnosis [1] - is the correct term to use. Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. This did not use to be so but that d…

> Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. I don't see how you could usefully extrapolate a "real" baseline rate based on what prior generations did. Atypical sexual/gender identities have been taboo for almost the entirety of human civilization, and only as these taboos are now bei…

The current wave of "self-identification" was markedly absent in the wake of the '68 revolts and the ensuing "free love generation" which casts doubt upon your thesis. It is far more likely that these current "self-identification" trends are emergent properties of the availability of direct one-to-many communications media - social media and the like - which make it possible for these identity groups to emerge and grow rapidly.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#503

Post by el_nahual » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:42 PM UTC

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #495

goda90 wrote: post #371

Stuff like this makes me wonder if taboo and stigma "evolved" in societies as defense against the spread of behavior that could cause a breakdown of social order. For example, if something like dancing mania[0] got out of hand, then important jobs could be left undone and people starve or whatever. So if the notion that such behavior is bad is drilled into everyone's mind before being exposed, then they are more like…

There's no need for convoluted explanations. A good taboo, understood as a restriction on certain kinds of behavior or speech at least in certain circumstances, exists to protect some good. It's the same reason (or one of the reasons) we partition our houses into rooms by purpose. Human flourishing requires certain limits, not letting it all hang out. The latter is more akin to the liberal notion of freedom understoo…

"limitless indulgence of the appetites and desires" has a different word. That's not freedom, that's called debauchery and has absolutely nothing to do with "liberalism" in the political science meaning of the term.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#504

Post by ttpphd » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:43 PM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #371

Stuff like this makes me wonder if taboo and stigma "evolved" in societies as defense against the spread of behavior that could cause a breakdown of social order. For example, if something like dancing mania[0] got out of hand, then important jobs could be left undone and people starve or whatever. So if the notion that such behavior is bad is drilled into everyone's mind before being exposed, then they are more like…

Taboo and stigma are also what drive irrational prejudices, so I'm not sure about the rush to judgment about, ummm, "important jobs" which definitely were not how society was organized during the vast majority of our evolution.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#505

Post by Zezima » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:43 PM UTC

_aavaa_ wrote: post #482

boyanlevchev wrote: post #476

A freaky thing that this paper doesn’t mention is that in some cases these tics have gotten so extreme, that one patient began having almost constant seizures and became wheelchair-bound. Imagine being “infected” by watching a video on TikTok! It sounds like a horror movie. From The Guardian: “Over the next few weeks, Wacek noticed that she was having tics. “They were just little noises,” she says. “Nothing to write…

> It sounds like a horror movie. Might I interest you in Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson.

So happy I found this comment! Yes Snow Crash is a mist recommendation and insanely relevant to mass hysteria and "babbling"

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#506

Post by dEnigma » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:45 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #355

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #34

From my reading of the article (which is hard to parse not being an expert) it seems there is a German YouTuber with Tourette's who also on his YouTube shows displays non-tourette's tics. And these tics are being copied by other young people watching his shows, and being presented as Tourette's until they arrive at the clinic where these experts go "hang on this kid does not have Tourette's but does have tics similar…

It's plausible [1] [2]. I am by all accounts neurotypical (except perhaps for a touch of Aspergers) but I have an involuntary tic. Every now and then (like once or twice a week) a memory of some incredibly stupid thing that I once did -- sometimes decades ago -- will pop into my head and before I can re-establish conscious control I'll make a vocalization that sounds like a cross between a whimper and a sneeze. It's…

I also do that from time to time, though less regularly, maybe once a month. But then I also sometimes talk to myself (not excessively, just occasionally when I take a walk or while at home, replaying some conversation or imagining a possible situation). I thought this was rather normal, or at least not too far from normal.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#507

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

Eumenes wrote: post #385

gadders wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck it, I'll take the karma hit. I am of course referring to young girls identifying as male/non-binary. I'm sure some of the cases are genuine, but not all. And I'm not saying these girls aren't troubled or have other things going on that they need help with.

It is mass psychosis at this stage. Friend is a teacher in a very wealthy suburban area and 50%+ of the class identifies as non-binary (apparently). We're supposed to believe this is organic and totally normal?

It's pretty easily explained, they think it's cool to say they are nonbinary, or pansexual, or genderfluid, or something along those lines. One popular/alpha kid says it and soon their entire clique gloms on. Adding to the allure for teens is that some adults find this shocking. They are not really committing to anything, and they know it. They're doing it for social karma. Teens have done this kind of thing forever.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#508

Post by LawTalkingGuy » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

RC_ITR wrote: post #330

ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

>then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. Don't fall into the trap of assuming that 1950's Western norms are a 'baseline.' History shows us that almost all expressions of gender are fluid. The idea of "men and women need to be segregated in certain places (particularly when nude) and must dress differently' is likely the…

> The idea of "men and women need to be segregated in certain places (particularly when nude) and must dress differently' is likely the cause of how prevalent transgender people have become.

Have you ever been a parent? Because males and females are different, and the sexual pressures on them are immensely different too, for both social and physical reasons. Similarly, sexual risk (to anyone, but especially children) is incredibly lopsided and comes almost entirely from males.

If you ignore sexual differences in other children you will let your children be mistreated, if you ignore sexual differences in adults you will get them molested.

> It was always an unsustainable system that was only allowed to flourish because a powerful minority wanted it to.

Pretty much all women know and are cautious, if not fearful, of male violence. They fought for women's sex-based rights because of obvious need. This isn't men putting women in purdah, these are protections they've achieved for themselves. Most men can see the extra work women have to do for safety reasons. The need for women's spaces is far from a minority opinion.

> Like are you a boy that relates primarily to women? Well you either endure being separated from them for a ton of meaningful developmental activities or you become transgender.

If you truly empathized with women you'd realized that your size and strength and biology makes you a risk that another woman wouldn't be and you'd socialize with women in mixed-sex areas and activities where your presence wasn't an undue burden.

> I think there are plenty of people who would be fine with their biological sex if it didn't come with so much societal baggage.

It's the physical baggage people are wrongly trying to ignore.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#509

Post by cscheid » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #406

throw__away7391 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not totally normal and very common though? This exact thing happens to me all the time, with some specific memories linked to seemingly random acts like shaving the left side of my neck.

Yes, loads of people get this. A couple of random reddit threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/socialskills/comments/hzgm1n/how_to... https://www.reddit.com/r/socialskills/comments/2nnff4/how_to... I do it. When i'm alone, and one of those thoughts hits, me, i often vocalise a bit. If i'm in company i just wince (if i made a noise in front of other people when i thought of something embarrassing, that would be embarrassi…

> embarrassment Kessler syndrome

Thank you, this is a genuinely great turn of phrase.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#510

Post by Fr0styMatt88 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

I have to wonder if mirror neurons play a part in this. Perhaps there’s something that’s fundamentally common to both ‘real’ tics and these types of non-Tourette’s tics. A person could already be predisposed to something like Tourette’s and seeing these videos could be the thing that ignites the kindling for them.