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It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

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471–480 of 704 posts

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can there ever be an informed transition with something like shifting genders?

You can practice presenting differently in safe social situations, that's reversible. (e.g. crossdressing) Trans fem people can remove their facial hair without doing other medical transition steps. The effects of hormone replacement are so slow that you can safely "try them out" for a month or two and not have a huge permanent burden. You talk to people and think about it real hard and sleep on it for years. It look…

What is cis?

This makes sense except the part about the slow acting hormones. If they are slow acting then one wouldn’t know their effects until later. How much later? And is it guaranteed that they will be reversible at that point?

Modulo what is above, in summary: you are saying there can be informed decisions because the teenagers can: - try out cross dressing - try out the hormone therapy to some point before it has non-reversible long term consequences

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not tran[sition]gender. It is the "trans-" Latin prefix meaning "across", "beyond" or "on the other side of" + gender. In other words, people who moved on from the gender assigned to them at birth. Some non-binary people identify as transgender but not all of them do. Just like non-binary is both an umbrella term and a spicific gender identity, transgender is both an umbrella term and a specific gender identity…

> In other words, people who moved on from the gender assigned to them at birth. Yes, and the Latin word trānseō (nominal form trānsitiō → English: transition) means exactly to "go on across", "go beyond". Trāns ("across, beyond") + eō, it ("I go, he/she/it goes") + tiō (→ English: "-tion"). It's a distinction without a difference.

My point is that they share a source and are siblings, but one is not the parent of the other. Being transgender is not about the medical or social transition, it is about how the person identifies.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#473
post #45

This passage from the abstract: > Moreover, they can be viewed as the 21st century expression of a culture-bound stress reaction of our post-modern society emphasizing the uniqueness of individuals and valuing their alleged exceptionality, thus promoting attention-seeking behaviours and aggravating the permanent identity crisis of modern man. is rather peculiar. I didn't expect that this is how neurologists and neuro…

This language style is a bit more common in academic writing outside of the Anglo tradition that is most commonly reported in the English-speaking world. British and American university training emphasises more clinical language, for better and worse.

This reminds me of analytical (formal) vs continental philosophy which is similar.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about all the kids suddenly becoming trans? Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. It is a moral panic, and it causes real harm to kids who need genuine mental health support who are instead being dismissed as being part of a trend. "all the kids" are not suddenly becoming trans - the incident rates in society are still extremely small. All rises in incidents of transgenderism are easily explained…

> Please do not repeat this right-wing talking point. Please do not make this a partisan issue. Some of us have been following the sexually regressive trend of calling our children's bodies defective and broken because they don't match the viewers' sexual stereotypes for quite a while now, and there was pretty widespread consensus across political and religious ideologies that our kids didn't need surgery to be okay.…

I appreciated this thoughtful response (rebuttal) to OP. I agree with your concept of "back in the 00s you'd never have a teacher scold a child for using wrong-sex clothes/toys because we'd largely gotten rid of the concept". This dovetails into one of the paradox's of the trans-adjacent ideology that I haven't been able to square in my own head, which is that transitioning genders is predicated on strong gender norms existing in a society. In other words, it seems less accepting to be a male and exhibit feminine traits (and by the way, we are in fact acknowledging traditional societal ideas of gender roles now, rather than moving beyond them).

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#475
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I just say fuck and shake my head. Apparently this is rather normal behavior...

According to who? I have the same issue and it's annoying.

Well sure? Remembering embarrassing stuff is annoying.

I've found that sitting with the thought for a little while and processing the emotion prevents it from coming up again. You can't just remember that girl in first year of uni that made an effort to hug you every day and flee the thought every time, painful as it is. You have to sit there and go through it. Yes I was young and stupid, but the reason I even cringe thinking about it is because I am now better. And that is ok.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#476
A freaky thing that this paper doesn’t mention is that in some cases these tics have gotten so extreme, that one patient began having almost constant seizures and became wheelchair-bound. Imagine being “infected” by watching a video on TikTok! It sounds like a horror movie.

From The Guardian: “Over the next few weeks, Wacek noticed that she was having tics. “They were just little noises,” she says. “Nothing to write home about.” She would scrunch up her nose, or huff. The tics escalated from sounds into words and phrases. Then the motor tics kicked in. “I started punching walls and throwing myself at things,” she says. By July, Wacek was having seizures. She had to stop work. “Being a chef with seizures is not safe at all,” she says. Her GP referred her to a neurologist, who diagnosed her with functional neurological syndrome (FND). People with FND have a neurological condition that cannot be medically explained, but can be extremely debilitating. “In a general neurological clinic, around 30% of the conditions we see are not fully explainable,” says Dr Jeremy Stern, a neurologist with the charity Tourettes Action. In Wacek’s case, FND manifested in verbal and motor tics, not dissimilar from how Tourette syndrome appears to lay people, although the two conditions are distinct. Wacek has up to 20 seizures a day and currently has to use a wheelchair.”

Source: https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2021/nov/16/the-unknown-is...

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't voluntarily stop it and it's causing negative effects to your quality of life then why can't it be called an illness? These people aren't going to get professional help just for the fun of it

> Third, patients often reported to be unable to perform unpleasant tasks because of their symptoms resulting in release from obligations at school and home, while symptoms temporarily completely disappear while conducting favourite activities.

How does that imply that it’s voluntary?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#478
post #141
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your being willing to speak your mind without hiding behind vaguery. We can risk a karma hit together. You are referring to a myth called "Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria," which has been debunked. Gender identity is not a socially transmitted pathology. I don't believe you meant this in a hateful way, but let me explain what the problem is with this idea. This is sophistry about how LGBTQ people should rem…

This is an issue I'm somewhat concerned about. Let's first be clear that gender dysphoria is a real thing, and transitioning has been a very real solution for many people, and has helped people from depression, possibly suicidal, to a much happier state, and that's great. It's vital we don't lose that. At the same time, it's been politicised; there's a lot of conservative pushback claiming this isn't real, leading to…

> Let's first be clear that gender dysphoria is a real thing

To be clear, the pain someone is feeling is real but the "reality" of a condition is a bit of an unclear concept. We can't really address this until we try to control for the gendered expectations of the sufferer, their surroundings, and any observers. Suzie Green of Mermaids has said that some of their motivation in transing their son as a toddler was his father's discomfort with some of the toys he was playing with and the homosexual connotations. Likely if the boy had tolerant and unbiased parents he'd be happy as a man, and thus it's unlikely he truly had "gender dysphoria" unless you count whatever his parents conditioned into him.

> and transitioning has been a very real solution for many people

Again, hard to say given that the decision probably was not made in isolation from heavily gendered expectations. There's reason to think that removing those expectations would have made them at least as happy, if not more.

> Transitioning is [...] treatment, and not [...] an assault on anyone's cultural, religious or political beliefs.

For an adult it's a personal choice and we should have pretty wide latitude in things that only impact us. It becomes a societal and political issue when it's brought into schools, or when males are given access to women's spaces and opportunities.

> And if it really is happening more to girls than boys, maybe consider if cultural sexism might cause some women to not want to identify as such anymore. Especially in the face of issues like rape, bodily autonomy, but also acceptable jobs and behaviours. Maybe we should be more tolerant of cross-dressing.

Errr, that's the wrong takeaway. If a woman wasn't going to get promoted then her putting on pants won't help, and if she was going to get abused it wouldn't trick her attacker. We should work to remove or mitigate those problems so she doesn't feel the need to hide her true self.

If a woman is thought to be able to avoid rape by dressing like a man and/or having surgeries to reduce her sexual attractiveness then women will be thought to be asking for it ("How was she dressed? Did she still have her breasts?") for not doing those things.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#479
post #423
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good place to start - https://omny.fm/shows/revisionist-history/from-inside-voice-... Lake Bell asks the person to speak in their highest note and then their lowest note and then yodel for a couple of times. Then to asks her to just speak, and the voice that comes out much closer to what we associate with a 'normal' woman's voice. I guess having to manually change tone to such extremes resets the body's abi…

> resets the body's ability to recover this incredibly specific learnt behavior, and the person momentarily reverts to a clean sample of their own voice. What is one's "own voice?" Nearly all speech patterns, dialects, accents, patterns and phrasing is learned from one's social circle. Speech itself is "learnt behavior." It makes sense that those engaged in a subculture or online community may take up the way people…

Well... In my country there is a well known sociolect among well educated females. It also involves speaking in a low register. Doctors have found that this causes vocal chord scarring for some people. Not all learned behavior is favoured by the body, shall we say.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#480
This sucks as someone who has had movement disorders(essential tremor, tics) for decades. It also sucks because the covid booster, like a flu shot years ago(only one, I get them every year) caused a dramatic worsening of my tics for a few months.

I didn't realize the whole 'covid tic hysteria' was even a thing until I googled 'covid vaccine tics' after personally experiencing a dramatic worsening of symptoms.

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