No one wants to have kids anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#131

Post by drc37 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

meowfly wrote: post #87

Elizabeth Warren's book The Two-Income Trap argued that dual income couples priced out single income families from the best locations. It makes sense that DINKs and childless single people are simply reacting to the same economic incentives and now pricing out dual income families. I think high-rents is a major driver of this decision. The USDA puts the cost of your first kid at $14.4k annually edited . That is prima…

I’ll give you a hint, the best locations are not in the city. Check out small towns. The people are down to earth. The cost of living is much less and the people are generally awesome to be around. I love in a small farming town and your neighbors would give the shirt off their back to come help you. One of our daughters has to go to the hospital for about a week and we came home to a clean house and meals for a week.

Those who think the city is good place to be, explore a little outside your urban bubble.

In addition to this, we have lots of kids and there are plenty of ways to have kids affordably. You don’t have to send your kids Ivy League schools and if they do, they can get their student loans to pay for it.

Lastly, yes, kids can a source of frustration and pain but they are by the one of the largest sources of joy, pride and happiness in our life. Watching them grow and develop is amazing.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#132

Post by nicodjimenez » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

chrisbaker98 wrote: post #83

kneebonian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great talk about that here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi_nFz1CJSI

Zeihan is great.

Zeihan is not always intellectually honest and I don’t trust what he says about Ukraine but he says a lot of interesting things about demographics. He says nothing though about culture, sovereignty, or the quality of bureaucracies.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#133

Post by nonethewiser » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #74

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #36

> But deep down I get it. Babies are a huge opportunity cost. Financially speaking, they are like winning the lottery but backwards. You can't even think of having one without cancelling your subscription to a good night's sleep. And if you take into account inflation, economic recession, and the rest of the news cycle's highlight reel, even a one-child family can seem to have one too many mouths to fish Lego pieces…

If considering children you focus on financials/comfort, you're going to get the same answer every time. You don't do it to be better off or more comfortable. You do it to have a meaningful relationship. It's really the same as having a life partner. Why do it when going out costs money and you'll have to adjust your schedule to their needs?

I essentially see it the same way. It's a tradeoff of pleasure and comfort for meaning.

It's a counter intuitive choice in the modern world. Its increasingly common to choose comfort over meaning. Especially when so many dont think meaning even exists.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#134

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #128

toomuchtodo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 2 kids, I don’t recommend it. Quality of life decline is steep unless you’re wealthy and can hire robust childcare support, and it causes a significant decline in relationship satisfaction with your partner. Maybe you end up happy in the end, maybe you don’t, it’s Russian Roulette in a different form. People who tell you to go for it aren’t going to make you whole if it doesn’t work out or be your village when…

This is extremely location-dependent. In countries where you have universal healthcare, free education and childcare benefits, the financial impact of having a child can be very low.

What are the birth rates in these countries? If you check (Our World In Data Fertility Rates), you’ll see it’s lower than the US, even countries with strong pro natalist policies. The opportunity cost of kids is just too damn high.

When fathers in Spain were given more parental leave, they have less kids, for example. The revealed preference is clear.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/children-per-woman-UN

https://qz.com/work/1614893/after-men-in-spain-got-paternity...

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#135

Post by readingnews » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

Am I the only person that looks at these (articles/rants/raves/sometimes serious) and thinks: Wait up, the start of the article noted that we are at 8 billion people on the planet... but dangit, we need to have more people!

Perhaps it is sarcasm, and I keep reading we do not have enough young people, but it sure seems ironic that the two headlines that keep cropping up are: Too many people and Not enough people.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#136

Post by mftrhu » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #126

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s your choice, but you’re definitely missing out on something special. I totally forgot to mention the patronizing attitude that so many people come to this conversation with. Thank for you for heads up.

Patronising is thinking you know what it’s like having children without having them. You don’t. You have no idea of the emotional and practical side of having children, and how hard and how amazing it is, and how it’s the best and hardest part of your life up until then. Patronising is thinking you know you don’t want kids without having them. You don’t. You have no idea what it’s like.

> Patronising is thinking you know you don’t want kids without having them. You don’t. You have no idea what it’s like.

... what?

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#137

Post by raesene9 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

cloutchaser wrote: post #69

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #36

> But deep down I get it. Babies are a huge opportunity cost. Financially speaking, they are like winning the lottery but backwards. You can't even think of having one without cancelling your subscription to a good night's sleep. And if you take into account inflation, economic recession, and the rest of the news cycle's highlight reel, even a one-child family can seem to have one too many mouths to fish Lego pieces…

It’s your decision, but not having children because of your comfort is like saying you won’t ride an amazing wave as a surfer because it’s hard and dangerous. Yep, it is. But when you ride that wave it will be the most amazing experience of your life. Even if it is hard. it’s your choice, but you’re definitely missing out on something special. Something we were genetically created to do (which makes it even better th…

might be the most amazing experience of your life. Not everyone enjoys (or would enjoy) being a parent.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#138

Post by snapcaster » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:52 PM UTC

DonHopkins wrote: post #65

How is this not good news for humanity? As many people as he annoyed, RMS had a point. http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...

I like RMS being out there and having the opinions he does, but please don't act like he is some great role model for men or humans. He's a weird nerd who doesn't attract mates and alienates his allies. Woe be unto any man who tries to be like him, you'll end up unhappy and considered a loser

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#139

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:52 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

This is like one of those “things parents think about having children that are wrong” articles.

It makes a lot of assumptions about all parents having the same experience. It’s not. A lot of this assumes kids without any health issues.

“The low-sleep phase is temporary.” Nope. “Same goes for changing diapers” Nope.

There are lots of good things when it comes to children, and I love mine, but if you aren’t mentally prepared for the possibility that your entire life will have to change, you might want to think harder.

It might not happen to you, but it could also happen. Do not let someone pretend that it’s all temporary.

No.

It’s literally for the rest of your life.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#140

Post by corford » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #46

> at this pace, the world's population is going to flatline at around 10 billion in 50 years Is that what you're panicking about? This means that for the next 50 years, we'll continue growing. Lack of offspring of current generations is clearly not the problem here. I still remember how in the 1980s, people were panicking that the world population kept growing, and sooner or later we were going to hit 10 billion. And…

>Should the population grow or shrink? I don't know

There was a good paper in the Lancet covering some of the expected repercussions if population growth continues to decline throughout this century (as current trends indicate it will): https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)30677-2/full...

Certainly society's economic balance is going to be drastically affected:

"Although good for the environment, population decline and associated shifts in age structure in many nations might have other profound and often negative consequences. In 23 countries, including Japan, Thailand, Spain, and Ukraine, populations are expected to decline by 50% or more. Another 34 countries will probably decline by 25–50%, including China, with a forecasted 48·0% decline (95% UI −6·1% to 68·4%). Population percentage declines do not immediately convey the associated profound shifts in age structure in these nations. Our findings suggest that the ratio of the population older than 80 years to the population younger than 15 years will increase in countries with more than 25% population decline, from 0·16 today to 1·50 (0·54–3·25) in 2100. These population shifts have economic and fiscal consequences that will be extremely challenging."