Apple invested too much in China. I doubt they can wean off the Chinese market and labors/suppliers. the news about Apple throttled AirDrop during Chinese protests is a tell.
Doubting they can cold turkey is reasonable. But why can’t they wean off?
Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
321–330 of 358 posts
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in X For clothing, people can check the label. Most consumers simply don’t care enough when fast fashion is cheaper and more convenient than “ethical brands”
People never see the harm done so they are basically ignorant. Most people wouldn't eat meat if they had to kill an animal either.
> Most people wouldn't eat meat if they had to kill an animal either.
I remember clearly we did the fattening and killing of chickens at home when I was a child. I had to step on a broom stick that was on the chicken neck, and wait until the chicken died. Then the adults cooked it and we ate it.
There was nothing strange or shameful about it, chickens were not 'pets', and every household did the same.
I would say people will step down their high horses as soon as the hunger and need of protein can not be satisfied with supermarket meat.
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#323Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
That benefit overlooks a lot of human cost involved. And if you're being real, you'd know the major beneficiary is Apple. The American companies aren't quite the saviors that folks might think they are.
You'll be unable to paint an alternative scenario for bypassing the process of gradual wage increases because it would never work in reality. What was China going to do, warp straight to having an economy with $60,000 GDP per capita? If things actually worked that way, countries as diverse as Romania, Indonesia, India, Vietnam, Pakistan, Mexico - they'd all do it too. It doesn't work that way. You have to move up, gr…
Its been 15 years since Apple started the iPhone.
That's a really poor excuse for punching down when conditions and wages havent really improved.
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah considering that China for about 2000 years was the leading civilisation I'm not sure why people use that term.
> Yeah considering that China for about 2000 More like 500 years (1000 years at best if you stretch it very hard)
China's recorded history goes back more than 3000 years. Granted, it was only unified 2200 years ago.
I don't know if any possible interpretation of Chinese history that puts China's formation a mere 500 or 1000 years ago. The Qin dynasty (3rd Century BC) is really the absolute latest point at which you could say China came into existence.
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
India, being a democracy, means that governments have to give in to demands of voter groups. The two largest voter groups are farmers and low wage labor. This has ensured that acquiring land for large scale projects or changing labor laws carries massive political risk. Changes to India’s farm laws now seem next to impossible. I doubt India will have a more popular government than it has today. Yet, it had to cave in…
>India, being a democracy, means that governments have to give in to demands of voter groups Love how everyone is throwing around the word "democracy" in this thread like saying it makes hot true and that it has some specific meaning. The only reason Apple is moving there is because it is NOT a democracy. 'Electoral autocracy': The downgrading of India's democracy https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56393944
It’s a democracy in all its messiness and glory.
Just as a side note, BBC is never keen on India, simple googling would tell you the weird biases they had against India, they don’t even hide it or be subtle about it, my theory is, it’s an established bias in organization for generations since Independence of India and it passed on.
Please read more Economist or Reuters for actual factoids or practical opinions on India that are close to reality (I know South of earth news sources are all biased to west unless it’s loaded with triggering emotional stories of victims, I could list some good ones)
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can be "civilized" and an autocracy. Certain aspects of modern China makes the West look like a backwater. Hell, even Russia has less people in prison than the US and free heath care. Also, that phrase just reeks of imperialism, racism and superiority - just a modern version of "savages who need our one true religion". OPs argument is about democracy, not level of development and culture. For clarity: I'm anti-au…
What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'? I literally cannot think of a single thing. That doesn't mean China has no positive aspects. The West is also not monolithic.
> What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'?
Transportation infrastructure. 5G connectivity.
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in X For clothing, people can check the label. Most consumers simply don’t care enough when fast fashion is cheaper and more convenient than “ethical brands”
People never see the harm done so they are basically ignorant. Most people wouldn't eat meat if they had to kill an animal either.
Not slaughering your own food is a pretty recent thing and still how common in a large part of the world.
Seems like a comment from an innocent kid this one.
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
Vague hand-waving about "human cost" of having factories that employ people is a load of abstract obscurantist nonsense.
Not sure if you're trolling but this wasn't even hard to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practices_of_Apple_Inc.#Manufa... I wish sometimes folks could see past their paychecks, privilege, and holier-than-thou attitude. That's too much to ask. I mean, better chances at holding Apple accountable than dealing with its notorious fanbois.
When you insult someone in your argument, their instinct will be to clam up and double down to defend themselves even if intellectually they’d agree with you. If you truly wish to enact change in another’s point of view, allow them the emotional safe space to explore and turn around their views. Be honest and show you’re willing to work with them against the problem. Otherwise you end up with a frustrating shouting match where the other party disagrees with you more.
Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
India has 5% manufacturing capabilities of China and will be at least 2x expensive and slow. India also has strong labor laws and local politicians still need votes
Sorry, but how is this capability measured? And why is it being assumed here that labor laws need to be suppressed to make iphone production viable?
It seems fair to assume that actual output and manufacturing capability are closely correlated (there's a limit to how much unused capacity can get built). Here's the manufacturing output by country (data from World Bank):
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.IND.MANF.CD?most_rec...
China is at about $5 trillion, India about $450 billion. So it's not 5%, but we are still talking of an order of magnitude.