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Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#881

Post by fsflover »

rosnd wrote: post #361
SamuelAdams wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You (and anyone reading this comment) are a rare exception. Users of this site are interested in how tech works. You spend time to understand what it’s doing and make things work for you. And that’s awesome! Personally I’m the same way. But an overwhelming majority of people do not want to fight with or customize their tech. Opening the tech actually tricks them into causing more problems by clicking random pop up’s…

> Maybe we need an actually viable Linux phone for tinkerers Like this https://store.google.com/product/pixel_7_pro ?

No, like Pinephone and Librem 5.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#882

Post by schrodinger »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #499
aussieshibe wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? I heard an argument like this a lot at the start of discussions about whether we should be able to choose to WFH in the longer term. "I don't want to WFH because..." Ok, sure, but nobody is trying to force you to. It might just be me, and I'll de…

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? You can always Jailbreak your device? I think Apples response to your argument would be that it isn't the technically aware user that is trying to get control over their device that is the problem, its apps being used by those with no technical…

Couldn't someone just release their app on github, and the user could install it via xcode for free?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#883

Post by schrodinger »

smoldesu wrote: post #215
isatty wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and I want to give my not so technologically literate parents an iPhone and I want it to just work. I want a consistent experience that’ll let me debug their problems from around the world or just feel confident sending them to the Apple store. Even for a power user like me, I’d rather have an ultra reliable device with amazing manufacturer warranty than something I can hack on.

> I’d rather have an ultra reliable device with amazing manufacturer warranty than something I can hack on. You can have all three, though. Apple simply stops you from harnessing the true potential of your device because it threatens their bottom line. This is immediately apparent when you realize that any form of sideloading requires a $99/year subscription fee. Absolutely bonkers that they get away with this and pe…

AFAIK that hasn't been true for a very long time. You can install apps via xcode for your own phone for free for a while: https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/

It's distribution that costs money, which makes sense because humans review that you're following their privacy polices etc.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#884

Post by schrodinger »

girvo wrote: post #544
SkyPuncher wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. Get an Apple TV. HDMI CEC means you never have to interact with the default UI.

I have one! That’s the plan currently. But you can’t avoid it entirely, it’s why TVs are so slow to turn on, they still try to collect data and so on.

don't some TVs actually listen in on what you're watching to figure out your viewing habits regardless?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#885

Post by schrodinger »

root_axis wrote: post #266
TylerE wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of what makes the Apple ecosystem so compelling is the consistency and coherence.

Nothing would change for you though, if someone wanted to sideload something they would just have the option to do so.

That's just not true. Making some things impossible by a company with Apple's clout prevents the exploitation of people who will click "next, next" to disable protections without really understanding the implications.

If you're truly a developer, you can add whatever apps you want to your phone from source via xcode, free now, so what's the issue?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#886

Post by jcrash »

mullingitover wrote: post #759
totalZero wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that level, any kind of in-person visit is a sign of mutual good will. Traveling to see someone is an act of respect, and opening your doors to someone honors that person. Not every interaction is zero-sum.

Musk posted news of his visit there by showing a video clip of the pool on the Apple campus. No evidence of the two even meeting in person as peers. I get the sense that if this was a friendly visit there would've been a shot of the two CEOs together. It makes me wonder if he even got into the same room with Cook. Cook made no mention at all of meeting with the CEO of the fifteenth-largest social network.

https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1598090996281413638#m

He thanked Cook for "taking him around" the campus, that sounds like in person to me.

Seems to me the reason there's no picture is that the visit wasn't for us, it was for them.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#887

Post by 7e »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #396
7e wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true. They could use differentially private on-device joins using anonymously downloaded ad data. Or they could securely aggregate the results. Or both.

Can you elaborate? I see an ad in the News app, then click on it and make a purchase from Clash of Clans in the App Store. Apple needs to charge Clash of Clans for the conversion. How do they do it? Apple knows that I bought the app (they charged me for it). In order to charge Clash of Clans for the conversion, my phone needs to connect to Apple and send them a record of the ad click. What if clicking on that ad and…

Check out secure aggregation protocols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_multi-party_computation, https://research.google/pubs/pub45808/, also https://arxiv.org/pdf/1708.01884.pdf.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#888

Post by 7e »

manigandham wrote: post #619
7e wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true. They could use differentially private on-device joins using anonymously downloaded ad data. Or they could securely aggregate the results. Or both.

That's not at all how adtech works. You cannot download all activity between ad supply (website/app/etc) and advertisers and every vendor in the middle onto your device for some joins.

You misunderstand, completely. A device needn't download all activity, or indeed download anything additional at all. It knows which ads it clicked on and it knows the conversion signal for each ad the user saw. It can thus easily count the user's conversions on the device, then privately aggregate the result with its peers using secure multi-party computation (or a secure enclave).

Even the ads can be anonymously downloaded using a shuffler/mixer, such that nobody knows which ads out of the universe of ads the device chose to target the user with.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#889

Post by [deleted] »

amelius wrote: post #71
threatofrain wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there should be a way to allow power users such as yourself to customize your phone, such as how Google allows side-loading. But we can see that based on how niche side loading is that mass-users oriented businesses like Spotify and Twitter would not be happy. As for users like myself, I'm very happy that Apple intermediates my relationship with big businesses, because in the sphere of negotiation and leverage, b…

Any user should be able to walk away from the original hardware vendor, never contacting them again, and still be able to use the product in a normal way. Otherwise you bought a service, not a product.

[deleted]

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#890

Post by CallmeDani »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #862
GeekyBear wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has never happened on Android. >When Fortnite launched on mobile in 2018, Epic Games very notably sidestepped the Google Play Store and pushed users to download the title directly from their website, an effort made to avoid the substantial revenue cuts that Google takes from in-app purchases of Play Store downloads. At the time, the move was understandable for Epic, which was sitting on the hottest free-to-pla…

For me, it's not about companies right but individuals rights. If I paid money for a device and if I am willing to let go of warranty and updates, I should be free to do whatever I wish with it. I don't think this statement should be as controversial as people make it to be.

You're free to jailbreak
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