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Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

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Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#231

Post by luckylion »

Etheryte wrote: post #170
umvi wrote: post #162

> “Right, boss, apparently because you keep talking about freedom, a large group of people are taking it to mean they have ‘freedom’ to harass people with slurs and all sorts of abuse. People are leaving the site because of it, and advertisers are pulling ads.” > That seems bad. Quick, have someone write up some rules against hate speech. > Level Four: “We’re the free speech platform without CSAM, infringement or hat…

Hate speech is illegal in numerous countries, Germany being the most prominent example. That specific case is covered in the article, too.

It depends. Hate speech (§130 StGb "Volksverhetzung") is illegal in Germany when it's directed at minorities, it's not illegal itself. When the German parliament voted to recognize the actions of the Turks against the Armenians as an act of genocide, a Turkish politician in Germany (Malik Karabulut) published that "this whore called Germany has declared war on us" and "Germans are a race of dogs" and similar stuff. There was some scandal, his political affiliations disowned him, but the prosecution decided not to move forward with the case because it's only illegal to perform hate speech against minorities and Germans are by definition not a minority in Germany.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#232

Post by lamontcg »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #211
themitigating wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to pre musk ban. The exact tweet was “I’m a bit sleepy tonight but when I wake up I’m going death con 3 On JEWISH PEOPLE,” Someone was proposing incitement to violence has a threahold etc. This to me is clearly incitement to violence. Some have claimed he didn't know what "death con" (defcon) means to which I say what could he have possibly meant. It's on Jewish People.

Defcon levels are about preparing for defense not attack. I think your bias is showing.

"death" con 3

Can't understand how you can be racing to explain and apologize that.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#233

Post by lesuorac »

atchoo wrote: post #91
lesuorac wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that officially what got Kanye banned? My understanding is that Twitter did not specify what exactly (i.e. which set of tweets) Kanye is banned for.

I think they kind of have. Musk replied "that's fine" to Ye posting the Musk yacht photo and "that is not" to the Star of David Nazi symbol which suggests that was the final line for the ban. The "going deathcon one on the Jews", which led to the pre-Musk ban, is arguably a more explictly a violent threat than the symbol.

It's was death con 3 not 1. Which makes it even weirder since 3 is the middle. But that's also assuming he meant defcon which is something we probably shouldn't do. Should stick to the words he's actually saying and w.r.t. the "going death ... on jewish people" is pretty black/white on inciting violence. But it was only a temporarily ban that he got following that tweet (which twitter1.0 did claim to do )[1].

Afaik, nobody at twitter2.0 has made a clear statement as to what tweet caused the permanent suspension. Just commenting "that is not" is not at all the same as saying "and this will get you banned".

[1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/10/kanye-wests-twitter...

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#234

Post by zimpenfish »

shrimpx wrote: post #210
nightski wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't as stupid as HN wants to think they are. Twitter will be judged based on how it actually evolves, not Musk's brand. Time will tell. Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though. If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn. Then there would be topics of innocent things like landscapes t…

> unfiltered hardcore porn Another data point: Been using Twitter daily within the past two years and I’ve never encountered anything remotely close to the filtering blunder you describe.

Adding a tiny Gladwell: I've been using Twitter since 2007 and pretty much daily for probably 10 years and same, never accidentally encountered "unfiltered hardcore porn" clicking on trends or pretty much anything.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#235

Post by dekhn »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #213
atchoo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh don't get me wrong, they are both unacceptable and I haven't and don't want to see the symbol tweet. I personally find words more impactful, revealing of intent and suggesting action than symbols. I say arguable because I don't which was worse, or if it's a worthy discussion, but the deathcon tweet is enough for me to see an unwell/dangerous person that needs a ban just to save them from themselves let alone anyon…

Defcon levels have to do with defense not attack.

yes but we're talking about deathcon levels, which are an entirely different thing!

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#236

Post by pessimizer »

Insightful, but about halfway through the problems stop being about running a social network, and start being about running a world-spanning social network that wants to operate in countries and languages that it doesn't bother to have moderators in.

I know porn forums that restrict the languages used to languages that they have mods who can understand, but that's obviously a very onerous restriction when you're trying to pull a maximum amount of money out of Malaysia while putting a minimum amount of money or thought into it. You don't have to be social media in Malaysia; someone who speaks the language and is familiar with local laws and politics would be better.

> in the end, basically every major social media platform ends up in this same place eventually (the place Twitter was already at when Musk insisted he needed to tear things down and start again).

To get to where Twitter was (and I think will ultimately continue to be), it's a bit dishonest to leave out the weekly meetings with administration officials where they ask for political censorship of specific accounts and subjects, and you update them on actions you've taken against the subjects and accounts they gave you last week.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#237

Post by cma »

nightski wrote: post #151
enumjorge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is a brand I wish more people would understand this. For people like Musk, his personal brand is extremely important and they spend a lot of effort portraying and selling a specific image. It is an important part of his success as a businessman. FTX’s Sam Bankman-Fried is another example. His disheveled, messy geek look was calculated, and in an interview after FTX’s collapse he basically admitted that some of his…

People aren't as stupid as HN wants to think they are. Twitter will be judged based on how it actually evolves, not Musk's brand. Time will tell. Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though. If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn. Then there would be topics of innocent things like landscapes t…

> Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though. If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn.

    Settings | Privacy and Safety | Display media that may contain sensitive content
Did you enable that maybe?

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#238

Post by anon291 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #164
anon291 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not particularly relevant. Satire articles make jokes about all kinds of people. For example, SNL regularly has females portray cis males and males portray cis females. Politicians regularly (rightly or wrongly) attack their opponents as not living up to whatever gender ideals exist. As an example, SNL had a lady play Rudy Giuliani to make fun of him: https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news/snl-cecily-stron…

It's "not particularly relevant" except for the part where it was the reason they were banned . Deliberately misgendering someone is not the same as making fun of them. The Babylon Bee's entire punchline is just that they're using a hateful slur.

On the contrary, the bee and others would argue that giving awards for women to biological males who dress like women is yet another form of discrimination against women. How can you honestly say that the bee should be banned for using satire to point out discrimination against women and compare that to Nazi germany? This is the moral bankruptcy I was talking about

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#239

Post by finspeech »

Level 21: Financialize speech.

Give the power of content moderation directly to the people by harnessing markets.

Want to ban/allow Ye or Trump? Highest bidder gets to decide. Gives another revenue stream to Twitter and takes the content moderation decisions out of Twitter’s and Elon’s hands.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#240

Post by pjc50 »

jhedwards wrote: post #206
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

Just for reference I believe that the "more speech" idea originated with Louis Brandeis, who was a brilliant thinker and one of the important liberal Supreme Court justices of the 20th century. The actual quote is: "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."[0] Louis Brandeis…

.. I read through and I think that makes the opposite point! In Whitney v California the California law banning Communist organisation was upheld.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/274/357/

> "Whitney was one of the founders of the Communist Labor Party, which was a radical wing of the Socialist Party that split from the rest of the Party after a convention in 1919. When she attended a convention to organize a California wing of the Labor Party, Whitney exhorted workers to vote for its candidates in elections and advocated for taking political action in a resolution. The Party eventually adopted a more extreme program than what Whitney advocated in her resolution, and she protested to no avail. Whitney was charged with violating the California Criminal Syndicalism Act on the basis that she had helped to organize a group that sought to effect economic and political change through the unlawful use of violence.

She argued that she had not intended the organization to act in this way and did not plan to aid it in those objectives, so she should not be charged merely for attending the convention. Whitney claimed that the California law violated the First Amendment."

As usual, lots of nice things may have been said about free speech, but in the end she was convicted and jailed for organising a political party.

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