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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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331–340 of 420 posts

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#331

I wash dishes by hand with hot water and a Korean abrasive cloth using no soap ... It's quicker and easier than anything else

How hot is the water? Soap kills and wash bacteria off the dish's surface, so if you substitute it with just hot water, the water have to be hot enough to kill those bacteria.

You'll be fine, bacterias are everywhere, you literally have poop particles on your toothbrush and everything else in your bathroom, you'll be fine

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#332
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc) I would wonder if that happens in the gut too. It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more Since people are trying to avo…

I used to get canker sores every once in a while. I cut out SLS by purchasing Toms toothpaste, and that helped a lot. I would still get them though, maybe twice a year. The thing that finally fixed it was almonds. I stopped eating almonds and I’ve never had a canker sore since.

I've had mouth ulcers (canker sores) all my life.

Things I've found that cause them:

- Pineapple

- Lemon/Lime juice

- Chilli

- Sometimes Chocolate

Things that prevent/reduce them:

B6/B12/Folate

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#333
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc) I would wonder if that happens in the gut too. It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more Since people are trying to avo…

>I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate Dawn is my favorite dishwashing liquid of all times, SLS seems to be the first active ingredient[1]. What should I use instead? [1] https://dawn-dish.com/en-us/how-to/what-dawn-is-made-of-ingr...

I wonder if it's fine if you thoroughly rinse dishes and wear gloves while doing the dishes.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hot is the water? Soap kills and wash bacteria off the dish's surface, so if you substitute it with just hot water, the water have to be hot enough to kill those bacteria.

You'll be fine, bacterias are everywhere, you literally have poop particles on your toothbrush and everything else in your bathroom, you'll be fine

I live in a country where bacteria-borne disease is rampant (typhoid, tuberculosis), so not using soap to wash dish is a dangerous thing to do, unless no other people ever come to your house.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be fine, bacterias are everywhere, you literally have poop particles on your toothbrush and everything else in your bathroom, you'll be fine

I live in a country where bacteria-borne disease is rampant (typhoid, tuberculosis), so not using soap to wash dish is a dangerous thing to do, unless no other people ever come to your house.

Fair enough, in non risky areas people tend to be too OCD about these things

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in an office where I eventually realized I got annoying to bad GI problems whenever I drank the water (won't describe in detail but very atypical and I at first wondered why it only happened when I was in the office), and someone else there once mentioned they had the same problem. I always used the office-services provided glasses to drink out of, and reading this it seems very likely it could have been res…

Might also be the result of shitty water treatment or softening, or even the state of the water source, water main and pipes in the building. Some water softening is done via agents like EDTA, which are also used heavily in soaps and detergents.

I have seen five gallon bottled water grow algae. It was from a professional water service to the office.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious, did you ever try using less detergent? Like cutting one of those pouches in half? It’d be messy but maybe it’d work.

Don't use the damn pouches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

TIL American dishwashers expect hot water input. This seems... bad?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#338
post #14

Ironically, the summary isn't as good as the "Key Messages" section at the bottom: > * Professional dishwasher rinse aid causes cellular cytotoxicity and directly impaired barrier integrity of gut epithelial cells by damaging TJ and AJ expressions in daily exposed concentrations. > * The underlying mechanisms of epithelial barrier disruption in response to rinse aid were cell death in 1:10,000 dilutions and epithelia…

I have sensitive taste buds and worked for an industrial kitchen with a Hobart washer:

1. Rinse plates before putting them in crates

2. Slide the crates into the washing machine.

3. Close the machine to get it to perform a 3-stage cycle over 2 or 3 minutes: soap, sanitizer (usually some ammonium solution like in sanitizing tablets), then rinse.

I was able to taste bitterness after the rinse cycles and we were never in a rush, so I had the habit of re-rinsing the plates afterwards.

In restaurants I notice soap in my water or on the plate every now and then. It seems like most people don’t mind or notice. If you don’t feel the texture change or taste the bitterness of soap, you can see it by observing pearlescent colors on the surface of your drink.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#339
post #215

It seems to me that a lazy person who reads or hears about this article and who worries about potential harm from dishwasher detergents is likely to run the cycle a second time with only water. A rough calculation would seem to indicate that a complete rinse-only cycle would reduce residue levels to well into the safety zone but at the cost of double the water and possibly double the power (if hot water were used). I…

Modern dish washers use under 4 gallons per cycle, so given you have at least one wash and one rise cycle, you’d only use a about 50% more if you are able to opt for rinse only. Compare that to a 2.2 gallon per minute water/efficient kitchen faucet where you’ll approach the amount of water consumed by your triple cycle load after just 5 minutes of leaving your water running.

5 minutes of running water at full speed to wash up dishes seems like way too much, unless it's a really large household. Washing up after a quick meal takes a few seconds, and if a proper dinner with cooking you'd fill the sink enough to soak the load then come back to rinse.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please indicate the correct kind of cat to complete the BOM for this system.

My BOM: - $199: TerraBloom 6" Silenced EC Inline Duct Fan, ECMF-150-S, 288 CFM, 36W - $114: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 24" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK, - $80: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 16" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK - $3,000 (2022 prices): Siberian cat. Bought before recent price rises where the prices have apparently more than doubled, somewhat killing my dream of getting another Siberian kitten. Closely related to Maine Coon…

This is like poetry. First comment I've "favourited" on HN that isn't explaining some deeply technical thing I want to reference later
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